From: Toto <toto@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 23:19:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: Hal Finney <hal@rain.org>
Subject: Re: anonymous credit
In-Reply-To: <199704140455.VAA03115@crypt.hfinney.com>
Message-ID: <3351CD43.5BB3@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hal Finney wrote:
> 
> Here is a simpler example of Wei's anonymous credit idea.  We can call it
> the "borrowing cryptographers".

Hal,
  I have been following this thread with interest (no pun intended), and
have had the foresight to not add to ideas that go beyond my own ability
to follow.
  (I have to read your posts several times to even begin to grasp some
of them.)

  I am wondering what other concrete examples you might be able to add
to the one in this post which might point to an actual funtional
implementation of the ideas you have been promulgating.
  Many of the CypherPunks discussions involve largely theoretical
concepts which need much development to be practical, but it seems to
me that in this post you are approaching a level where what you are
discussing might actually be feasibly introduced in various microcosmic
situations.

  Being a Canadian, and therefore semi-socialist by nature, I am 
thinking along the lines of Credit Union applicability of your ideas.
Credit Unions often take the form of small groups of individuals or
companies with common aims and/or backgrounds/interests.
  The basic idea behind many Credit Unions is that they are more prone
to lend money to individuals or institutions which are promoting ideas
which can be profitable, but which the average banker or loan agency
would not understand sufficiently to advance money on.

  For example, having an interest in the issues you are discussing, I
might be ameniable to getting involved in an effort to fund the
development of the 'Hal-Wei Anonymous Credit' program.
  The advantage of a Credit Union setup is that I know that it is run
with an eye to realistic chances of success being considered, but also
will take into account efforts that should be funded which may have
only a marginal chance of financial success, but will further the 
general cause of those things I am interested in.

  Truly there are a rising number of issues today which might benefit
from the ability to participate anonymously in the funding of causes
in which one has an interest.
  While AP is one of the more startling and newsworthy (?) aspects
of anonymous lottery/credit systems, there are a multitude of minor
causes which might benefit from the ability to engage in an anonymous
credit system, as well.
  A simple example might be those who wish to financially back a legal
challenge of their health-care system, without risking being denied
benefits as a result of their participation.

  I think that some of the CypherPunks' contributions to computer
technology go largely unrecognized because of the fact that they
aide those who do not wish to draw attention to themselves, for the
most part.
  There isn't a week that goes by without my receiving an email from
someone who thanks me for the benefit they have gained by my introducing
them to encryption or anonymous remailers, yet I doubt that many of them
give the same feedback to those who provide those services. Remailer
operaters seem to mostly receive shit and abuse for feedback, as a
result of their efforts, yet I know from experience that there are many
to whom their services have been a blessing.

-- 
Toto
"The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html