From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 21:33:07 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: remailer spam throttle
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970331225622.00633a98@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <gkJk5D36w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Bill Stewart <stewarts@ix.netcom.com> writes:

> At 06:46 PM 3/28/97 EST, Dimitri wrote:
> >That's a good idea, but it'll take up a lot of disk space at the
> >machine running the remailer.  Right now, remailers that provide
> >latency don't keep an e-mail for more than about 12 hours. Once
> >you start keeping them around for a few days (a reasonable grace
> >period for a first-time user), it's a lot more disk space.
>
> Typical remailers carry maybe 100-500 messages/day;
> typical messages run 1-20KB unless they're pictures or warez.
> 	(Yes, I'm making these numbers up....)

Let them send pictures and warez. A remailer operator shoudn't care. :-)

> >IMO, the 'net has changed from what it used to be a few years ago.
> >One can no longer send e-mail to an unknown recipient and hope that
> >they're willing to accept anonymous e-mail.
> I'd agree, but from the first anonymous remailers open to the public
> there were people who didn't like receiving anonymous mail :-)

Well... Let me quote the complaint that Jim Ray (himself a one-time
remailer operator) sent to postmaster@dm.com because he didn't like
the anonymous messages that he thought might be coming from me:

]Received: from miafl2-16.gate.net (miafl2-16.gate.net [199.227.2.143]) by osceola.gate.net (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA187758; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:13:05 -0400
]Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 07:13:05 -0400
]Message-Id: <199610161113.HAA187758@osceola.gate.net>
]From: Jim Ray <liberty@gate.net>
]To: root@bwalk.dm.com, postmaster@bwalk.dm.com
]X-Priority: Normal
]Subject: Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
]X-Mailer: Pronto Secure [Ver 1.10]
]X-Prontosecureinfo:  T=signed, P=x-pgp
]
]-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
]
]Mime-Version: 1.0
]Content-Type: text/plain
]Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
]
]To: root@bwalk.dm.com, postmaster@bwalk.dm.com
]Date: Wed Oct 16 07:10:45 1996
]Can you folks somehow get Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM <dlv@bwalk.dm.com> to quit
]sending anonymous messages to cypherpunks? I have killfiled him, but he
]sends things with subject headers like "RSA" through the anonymous remailers
]and it is impossible to killfile them and still get interesting anonymous
]messages.
]
]He is evidently angry at another subscriber, Tim May, for showing the list
]how much of a fool he was regarding economics in the past, but now he shows
]how much of a fool he is. Below is an example, the subject was RSA, and it
]could only have come from him, I assure you. [BTW, this is not a threat of
]legal action on my part against you, it's just that you are lowering your
]reputations by letting him continue spewing garbage, and now that even
]killfiling him hasn't worked, I am trying to convince you to talk to him and
]encourage him to please take his lithium regularly.]
]JMR
]
]- -----Begin Included Message -----
]
]Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:35:04 -0400 (EDT)
] From: amnesia@chardos.connix.com (Anonymous)
]To: cypherpunks@toad.com
]Cc:
]
]Timmy C. Mayflower was born when his mother was on the
]toilet.
]
]
]
]- ---- End of forwarded message ----
]One of the "legitimate concerns of law enforcement" seems to be
]that I was born innocent until proven guilty and not the other
]way around. -- me
]
]Defeat the Duopoly! Vote Harry & Jo http://www.HarryBrowne96.org/
]___________________________________________________________________
]PGP id.E9BD6D35 51 5D A2 C3 92 2C 56 BE  53 2D 9C A1 B3 50 C9 C8
]I will generate a new (and bigger) PGP key-pair on election night.
]<mailto:jmr@shopmiami.com> http://www.shopmiami.com/prs/jimray
]___________________________________________________________________
]
]-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
]Version: 2.6.2
]
]iQCVAwUBMmTCum1lp8bpvW01AQHAugP/e/GTay0y778Ziy3JbWCGBb+tRxM8Q1Zi
]Z3aIP97hNYYoD7QKi9yP1gS3ZRbg/9ZXJonWTi+zmZ7yUjmWndczmXJ2IAC+Rgpx
]7MQmrhjU4htmiMCuawNmVLZRNZMl/+kNnX15taA8GdXTcuPXUsGN0y39oMbbqT5g
]do3B4yicgrY=
]=iix/
]-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Say, didn't this Mmmmm... Black Unicorn shmuck threaten to sue me
for saying someone's on lithium?? :-)

> >unless the remailer knows that the recipient took some positive
> >action to indicate that s/he has a clue (such as, added a key to a
> >keyserver), their anon mail should be immediately discarded and
> >they should instead get a note:
>
> That's an interesting approach - a bit extreme, but the main cypherpunks
> applications for anonymous remailers are things like whistleblowing
> (which can be posted to the net or emailed to people like Foo Inspectors
> who _ought_ to be willing to accept anonymous mail) and potential
> co-conspirators (who _ought_ to be willing to accept it if they're
> interested in co-conspiring), and of course yourself under various aliases.

If the maintenance of destination blocking/unblocking is divorced from
the remailer operators, then the whistleblower might be able to find
out whether the recipient accepts anon e-mail. Under the scheme I sort
of proposed, if I wanted to e-mail X, I might look up via the key servers
whether X accepts anon e-mail. If he doesn't, I ping him, knowing that
my ping will be discarded and instead he'll get a form letter telling
him how to enable receipt. I can check (say) the key servers a few days
later and see if he's ready to recieve anon e-mail; then I send the
real message.

Another advantage: there's no need to put the remailer's real address
in the form line.  Right now most operators say something like
"e-mail foo@bar and/or remailer-operators to be dest-blocked".
Under the scheme I'm not quite proposing yet, you can put any
junk in the from: (it's irrelevant!) and put the instructions
for dest-blocking via a 3rd party in a comment header.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps