From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:29:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Another Article on Jim Bell from the Oregano
Message-ID: <199704071529.IAA22119@fat.doobie.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Rich Graves wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Timothy C. May wrote:
> 
> > At 11:45 PM -0700 4/6/97, Rich Graves wrote:
> >
> > >I think there is a censorship issue in the way the government is using the
> > >issue. I think AP is protected speech, just as the Unabomber Manifesto is.
> > >I don't want to see such speech chilled. But I think you've got the
> > >instrumentality wrong.
> >
> > I don't see any evidence either Bell's AP or Kacynski's Unabomber
> > manifestos are being chilled.

  Tim's eyesight is getting worse in his old age.
 
> There's plenty of evidence right here in this thread. See especially the
> "Feds Reading This List" branch and Lucky's "First they came for..."
> comments. Just because you don't feel chilled doesn't mean others don't.
> Whether this paranoia is justified is, of course, another issue:

  Paranoia is always justified. We live in a predatorial universe,
where you have to eat to survive.
 
> > I've written elsewhere why I think Bell was raided. 

  Tim sounded like an IRS aplogetist in that post. I'm beginning
to think that the same people who got the dirt on Gilmore and
forced him to bend over for C2Net's censors also have some pictures
of Tim tucked away somewhere.

  Contrary to Tim's flimsy reasoning, the IRS did not confine
themselves to seeking a search warrant based on the evidence
they had regarding possible SSN violations, or even a stretching
of logic on that evidence.
  Instead, they used a blatant misinterpretation of Bell's AP
system and developed a train of conspiracy which was even more
theoretical than Bell's writing, with absolutely no reference
to any hard evidence of Bell having engaged in any illegal
speech, despite having read hundreds of Bell's posts.

  It seems that Tim May despises those on the cypherpunks
list who develop conspiracy theories in regard to those who
are attempting to censor and ridicule list members, but has
no shortage of support for large, powerful government 
organizations who wish to develop conspiracy theories,
using obvious misrepresentations of a persons ideas 
to subject them to search and seizure on a fishing
expedition.

> what Inspector Gordon says about AP being in and
> of itself evidence of an anti-government conspiracy really bothers me.
> That's the kind of thing that does create a chilling effect.

  Exactly as it is meant to do.
  At least Rich Graves, snow, and others still have the ability
to recognize suppression of speech when they see it.

  For all of Tim's blustering about Bell's other sins being the
source of his problems, Tim could easily find himself in the
same position as Jim, if a large government agency should
ever decide to use Tim's words to add to his woes in a civil
or criminal case.
  How many on the cypherpunks list are co-conspirators with
Jim Bell in his evil plan to murder government officials? Those
who replied to his posts? All who received them?
  I would like to see one of the legal eagles on the list write
up an application for a search warrant on the cypherpunks list
servers and various individuals (written from the perspective
of a government agent/prosecutor), using the same stretch of
logic used in Bell's case.

TruthMonger