From: Toto <toto@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 21:17:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Grouchy Old Cypherpunks
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970411023901.0067fd6c@pop.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <334DBBF8.3B44@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Kent Crispin, whose sense of humor indicates he may not,
after all, be a government Bot, wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 10, 1997 at 12:27:29PM -0800, Timothy C. May wrote:
> [...]
> > By the way, I'm staying out of this latest tamper-responding device
> > argument. I worked on this at Intel, actually. But I wrote a bunch of
> > fairly long articles on this the 5th, or maybe it was the 7th?, time this
> > came up, circa 1993. Those who refuse to learn from the threads of the past
> > are condemned to repeat them.
>
> Let's see, to which would I rather be condemned:  participating in a
> lively, current discussion; or digging through musty outdated archives?

  I regularly cruise back through my archives of the CypherPunks list
from as far back as the early 90's and I rarely find them outdated.
And rather than being pretentious, I usually find them 'portentious'.

> Yes, we could continually mine the archives for words of wisdom from
> past participants, and thus pay them homage -- especially since it is
> so painfully obvious that is what they crave.  But we should forgive
> them this weakness, for at some lonely age we all start wondering
> about our legacy.

  There is, however, a far cry of difference between those to whom
homage is due, and those to whom it is not.
  As much as I may have railed against the fascist censorship of the
'moderation experiment' badly instituted by John Gilmore, I am not
ungrateful for the years of time and effort that he spent in hosting
the CypherPunks list, and stated so in a post to the list before it
moved on to new homes.

  Not knowing Tim May personally, I cannot comment on the description
of him in the press as 'crusty' (not knowing if it refers to his
personality or his sexual hygene), but I can see how a review of some
of his recent posts might suggest that he would not be out of place in
a remake of 'Grumpy Old Men'.
  However, his propensity for taking an attitude of 'been there, done
that' (and spanking young pups on the list) in no way negates the fact
that he 'has', in fact, been there and done that, and that his (somewhat
vague) pointers to sources of information in regard to various list
issues might prove valuable to those who have enough interest in the
issue to want to indulge in a little research on the matter.

  While the discussions of those currently active on the list may be
enlightening, there are certainly other CypherPunks (some active, some
inactive) who have dealt with current issues in the past, and done so
from a perspective and knowledge base that are equal or superior to
those who are participating in current discussions.
  While Tim is certainly an icon on the list, I haven't seen any signs
of senility seeping in, just yet.
{From: "Timothy C. May" <tcmay@got.net>
 Subject: Has anybody seen my shoes? I lost my shoes! }
  (OK, maybe a couple of signs..:)

  While I sometimes feel that the list would be better served by more
of the long-time members being a little more specific in their aide
to more inexperienced members seeking information, there is no doubt
that much of the input they do provide is useful enough to point those
seeking a better knowledge of crypto and crypto issues in directions
which can bear much fruit if the individual is sincere enough to
follow their pointers.

  Tim's legacy is already written in CypherStone, regardless of what
he may or may not do in the future, as is that of Gilmore and Hughes.
  Despite whatever battles you or I may engage them in, in the future,
we will be telling our grandchilren, "Hey, I <spit on>/<farted at>/
<kissed> him." when the movie 'Grouchy Old CypherPunks' hits the
big screen.

--
Toto
"One TruthMonger down, four to go"