From: mpd@netcom.com (Mike Duvos)
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 00:42:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Legality of Millgram-type psychological experiments
In-Reply-To: <v03007800afa631f038c4@[207.167.93.63]>
Message-ID: <199705191627.JAA14848@netcom16.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tim May writes:

: I'm curious about the "such psychological experiments are banned today"
: assertiokn. 

: Are you saying that if I were to announce such an exeriments at the next
: physical Cypherpunks meeting and ask for volunteers that I would be
: breaking some law? 

Such experiments require major deception on the part of the experimenter
towards the subject, and the experiments are likely to cause post
traumatic stress afterwards. 

This violates current ethical standards concerning informed consent and
freedom from risk to the subject which govern such experiments today. 

If you performed such an experiment on someone outside of current ethical
guidelines, there would be a queue of lawyers a mile long offering to help
the subject sue you after the fact.  It is not inconceivable that the
subject might convince the police to trump up some charges as well,
related to fraud or psychological torture. 

: Or are you saying instead that most university researchers are now unable
: to get grant money from the NSF and CIA to do such experiments? 

That too. 

: Or that any professor who publishes on such things may face disciplinary
: action from his university? 

You would probably be looking your next tenured position in Brazil. 

: Big differences.

: Insofar as I understand the law, so long as extreme physical torture is
: avoided, no laws cover such experiments. (Many religions are in fact
: organized along these lines, a la the Moonies, the Krishnas, etc.)

: (And extreme physical torture may also be legal, a la S & M and consenting
: sex practices, depending on one's jurisdiction. In San Francisco, even the
: mayor attends S & M parties.)

I think the deception aspect of the experiments would be the major cause
of hassles rather than the unpleasantness aspect.  On the other hand, I
believe there have been prosecutions for consensual S&M in a few
supposedly civilized places, like the UK.  I expect a screaming fag with
nipple pinching clothespins and a portable electro-ejaculator could
probably still get himself arrested domestically for plying his trade in
places like Cincinnati or the states of North Carolina, Tennessee, and
Utah. 

--
     Mike Duvos         $    PGP 2.6 Public Key available     $
     mpd@netcom.com     $    via Finger.                      $