From: lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 22:00:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: counterTCM post
Message-ID: <199705021329.JAA23390@dhp.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Vladimir Z. Nuri, who is wasting our tax dollars,
if he is paid government stooge, and wasting his
own time, if he is not, wrote:

> I generally agree that our democratic system has degenerated over
> the decades, to the point of being scary and dangerous in places.

  And, in spite of this, you're going to suggest more of the 
"same old, same old" right?
 
> however, we can ask, why did it get to that point? I believe
> it is a failure of the citizens to maintain the
> authority over their congressmen and president.

  And every fairy tale has to include the words,
 
> once upon a time, citizens saw congress and the president as their
> servants. it led to a particular kind of ideology reflected in the
> policies of the country.
> 
> over time, people gradually gave away this authority. they saw the
> president and congress as having authority over citizens, instead of
> vice versa.

  A lot of people give away their televisions to burglars, and their
wallets to armed robbers.
  The person with the largest weapon has the most authority.
 
> TCM's idea of telling congress and the president to f*** off is actually,
> in my opinion, an extreme case of people giving away their authority.
> it is more of the same problem, not the solution. it is failing to
> address the root of the problem-- that the president and congress
> must be put in a subservient relationship to the desires of the citizens.

  So you're about to suggest following Tim McVeigh's example, only
at the White House, instead, right?

> one must uncreate the monster in the same ways it was created.

  Right. It began life at the point of a gun, and that's the way it
should end when the monster begans feeding on those who created it.
 
> I commend CDT and all other online groups for their organizational
> motives and drive, and condemn TCM for his pissing on them. what is he doing?

  Sounds like a good, old-fashioned cypherpunks pissing contest
to me. Better lay in extra beer.

> if something is broken, do you fix it, or abandon it? or shoot it? TCM is
> always advocating the latter two. it's not a solution, and he knows it,
> and everyone else here knows it too.

  This is wonderful! At last the cypherpunks have a leader who can 
speak for all of us.
  When does the New List Moderation begin? I'm going to have to lay
in a whole shitload of beer for this round.

PissMonger & his corporate schill pooch, Spudz