From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@amaranth.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 02:37:47 +0800
To: Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: legal EAR work-around/Paper based remailers
In-Reply-To: <199705311800.TAA00253@server.test.net>
Message-ID: <199705311824.NAA22323@mailhub.amaranth.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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In <199705311800.TAA00253@server.test.net>, on 05/31/97 
   at 07:00 PM, Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk> said:


>William Geiger <whgiii@amaranth.com> writes:
>> Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk> writes
>> > [export via printing out on paper, and scanning via automated for pay
>> >  email gateway]
>> 
>> Why bother with all of this. If you want to export crypto then just do it.
>> As long as we keep up with this mickymouse approach to exports trying to
>> appease the FEDs who are acting unconstitutionaly on this matter things
>> will never change. Put up a web page or a ftp site with the crypto
>> binaries and let whomever wishes to download them download them.

>Do you have a copy of PGP5.0 on there?  I wouldn't mind looking at that.

No I have limmited space on that ISP so I only have OS/2 software there:
E-Secure, PGP 2.6.2 & 2.6.3 OS/2 binaries, PGP 2.6.2 & 2.6.3 source code,
and RSAREF 1.0 source code. If I ever get it finished I should have SSL &
Mixmaster OS/2 binaries & source available also.

>> I have done this and I will continue to do this dispite what the goons in
>> DC have to say about it.
>> 
>> We must all hang together or we will all hang.

>If you export it, and make a big deal of it advertising your web page as
>widely as you can, and talk to newspapers about how you're purposefully
>violating the export law, I'd predict you'd get a visit from the Feds in
>a few days.  As long as you're low key, you're just one of the hundreds
>getting away with it, and not worth the effort to stop.

Well I have posted the info to approx. 20 different newsgroups, plus
numerous mailing list & fido echos. Haven't called any newspapers but I
rank then right below lawers & politions so I am in no hurry to talk to
them anyway.

As far as the FEDs I allway liked the sound of Geiger vs The United States
of America. I doubt that they could really do more than harrasment
considering that they will allow fortune 500 to export PGP but not the
little guy??

>I think the key is to make fun of them, so that they loose
>credibility.  They don't like being laughed at.

>So Sun Microsystems did a real good job by getting stuff produced in
>Russia.  Russia of all places, given the average US persons jingoistic
>antagonism towards the "Commies".  Excellent.

>So my proposal is aimed at being another stunt.  It might be news-worthy
>(ie get reported on enough that it get discussed, and to make the US
>government look exceedingly stupid).

>And it's perfectly legal, so you can't be stopped.

>If PGP Inc wants to mail out the latest version of PGP, they are welcome
>to.

>I mean come on, next thing, the providor of this service will be offering
>web space too, so that US firms can link to their own binaries which they
>exported themselves 100% legally.

>Now all they need is some reseller agreements, or overseas sales offices
>to export worldwide unrestricted, dumb laws or not.

>It has been speculated that this change to the regulations might have
>been due to Phil Karn's ploy of asking to export the source code disks of
>the examples in Applied Crypto.  I think that is a cool
>speculation.

>Now we all know all the freeware and shareware crypto gets everywhere
>anyway.  But no US companies are not exporting high grade crypto
>generally, and US companies produce the lions share of application and OS
>software.

Well I would like to see the "big" computer
(IBM,Microsoft,NetScape,Sun,DEC,...) companies tell the FEDs where to go
and just export their software/hardware. What could the FEDs do? Shut down
the entire computer industry?

The whole power structure of the FEDs is built on fear & intimidation.
Solong as we deside to play it "safe" and just go along this will never
change. Whenever I think of ways of dealing with this problem I am
reminded of how Gandi handled the British in India. Non-violent civil
disobediance. The world governments are too dependant on the computer
industry for its survival. If the CEOs would just have some balls and
stand up to them this whole issue would have been dead before it ever got
started.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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