From: Duncan Frissell <frissell@panix.com>
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 03:47:58 +0800
To: Tim May <cypherpunks@algebra.com
Subject: RE: Jim Bell goes to Jail--We should avoid raidable, physical meeting
In-Reply-To: <01BC643D.699ED1D0@marmoset.loc201.tandem.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970519154301.03891524@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 11:07 AM 5/19/97 -0800, Tim May wrote:

>Whether it stands up in court depends on the charges. As for you being
>willing to file a lawsuit that will make their heads spin, good for you.
>But to win a lawsuit, one has to have a case. And the laws are written
>broadly these days, and I doubt such a case would be won.

It might be hard to win lawsuits *against* the Feds although Steve Jackson 
Games did and other false arrest suits have succeeded.  The reverse of this
is 
that the Feds would have a very hard time winning a criminal case based on 
mass arrests at a Cypherpunks meeting.  They have lost loads of First 
Amendment busts over the years.  They have also lost the last few sedition 
cases they've brought even though the targets (white supremecists) were less 
popular than we would prove to be in court.  Many of us also have the 
intellectual and financial resources to mount an effective defense.  They 
would lose.

>(Did anything ever come of the police actions at the "2600" meetings in
>D.C. a few years back? I don't recall all of the details, but I gather the
>cops either moved in and made arrests, or maybe just watched and took down
>license plate numbers.)

Everything dismissed.  Just harrassment.  There were some actual arrests for 
tresspassing.  Cypherpunks meetings, however, are held with the permission of 
the building owners so such charges would fail in our case. 

I think the Feds case against JB is probably pretty weak.  Though we don't 
know the extent of his actions in the physical (as opposed to the spiritual) 
realm.  Arrests are frequently used to intimidate but dismissals or failure
to 
prosecute are very common in cases involving political dissent.

DCF

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