From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 21:54:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Artikel about XS4ALL in New York
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.91.970502201705.1060E-100000@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <quP56D21w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[cc'd to freedom-knights, who don't appreciate censorship of mj web pages]

Paul Bradley <paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk> writes:

> > anarchists, bent on disrupting society," Rodriquez told the Dutch daily
> > Trouw. "But now they have come to see that we are nice and quiet people
> > really."
>
> The only "nice people" are dangerous anarchists bent on destroying
> governments and buggering poloticians to death. (last part a personal
> preference of course, the author is totally straight but would
> nonetheless be distinctly amused to see any government official
> butt-raped to death)

I, personally, would have to use a dildo.  Even if I were queer,
I wouldn't get it up for a politician or a Cabal supporter.

Yes, let's fuck Chris Lewis to death with a 27" dildo!!!1!!1!

> > The company was instrumental in the creation of the Amsterdam Digital
> > The hotline is run by Internet users and providers. Unlike Britain's
> > Internet Watch Foundation, the Dutch hotline doesn't censor any
> > information nor does it ask the provider to do so. Hotline operators
> > contact the author of the information and ask him to remove the
> > offending content.  "If the author does not comply, we report him to
> > the police, and he'll be prosecuted," said Rodriquez, who also is
> > chairman of the Dutch Providers Association.

Both asking the author to remove contents, and contacting the police
are dishonorable acts. Even if the US, honorable providers tell the
complainers: if it's something illegal, call the cops and leave us
out of it.

> > "The Internet Watch Foundation forces the provider to remove the
> > illegal content," he added. "This is a fundamentally different approach
> > to responsibilities on the Internet. We think the author of the
> > information is responsible for his own actions, not the provider."

I hope the IRA blows up these Internet Watch motherfuckers.
Is this Blair guy any saner than the tory bastards?

> And if he chooses not to remove the content you happen to find offensive?
> If you truly believed in the rights of the author and publisher of the
> information you would think about it before sending in your own
> particular brand of thugs to "crush the mutiny".

Perhaps we should further expose XS4ALL's hypocricy by renting from the
web space and putting up some pages they won't like.

> > Yet when violation of the law is flagrant, XS4ALL doesn't hesitate to
> > comply, as it did a few weeks ago when it shut down a customer's home
> > page called Neuroroom, which sold marijuana and other soft drugs in
> > Holland and abroad.
>
> Sometimes one really wonders why we bother to set up mirrors to allow
> freedom of information to users, when the owners of these servers,
> supposedly in favour of free speech, do not even have the strength of
> character or conviction to decide for themselves what they will allow on
> their servers rather than bending over for the long cock of the law...

The ISP is not a court to decide that a web page offering MJ for
sale is "illegal".

> > The company's commitment to support free expression and democratization
> > of the Internet doesn't stop here.
>
> As far as I can see it hasn`t even started yet.
>
> > Last fall when the Serbian
> > government censored radio station B-92, XS4ALL helped design an
> > Internet campaign and started to carry news broadcasts (in RealAudio
> > format) that kept the rare opposition voice alive and the international
> > public informed through independent accounts of the events occurring
> > during the mass demonstrations in Belgrade.
>
> I presume B-92 fell into line and matched the "requirements under law for
> obtaining a free-speech permit" before XS4ALL allowed this/

It's because Germans will gladly do anything to fuck over the Serbs.
I bet XS4All wouldn't host a web page for Karajic.

> > "Basically any project we like gets free resources from XS4ALL,"
> > Rodriquez commented.
>
> And anyone who guarantees to publicly lick the boots of the benevolent
> owners in thanks for their support gets as much free space as they like?
>
> Of course I believe in the right to free expression of anyone and if
> these thugs choose not to allow material they don`t like on their servers
> they have every right to remove it. I just don`t see that setting up
> mirrors to defeat blocks on sites that refuse to carry certain content is
> of any value in the fight for free speech. Sure, create a mirror of
> Radikal, but giving any credit or attribution to XS4ALL seems to be a
> poor choice.

My understanding is that Radikal is a harmless, toothless liberal rag
that the Germans had no grounds for censoring in the first place.
Mirroring it is no big deal. How about mirroring the MJ page that
the bastards at XS4ALL censored?

Actually, I don't think mirroring is a good technology either.
The "eternal server" posted a few days ago seems VERY VERY promising,
I'm very exited about this technology - many many thanks.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps