From: James Choate <jchoate@tivoli.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 05:30:29 +0800
To: telecode@primenet.com
Subject: Re: Hacker Links page
In-Reply-To: <33945CA6.1E69@primenet.com>
Message-ID: <199706032115.QAA25185@corp.tivoli.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi Duffy,

> James,
> 
> With regards to the page URL listed below:
> 
> 	http://einstein.ssz.com/ravage/hacker.html
> 
> The owner of the site of one the links listed has asked to have their
> URL removed from this page. Since the source of the page was "The
> Hackers Catalog", they contacted us. We removed their link promptly,
> however, a web search showed your URL still remaining on the page. They
> have asked us to remove all links back to them, so I am asking you to
> remove the link to the "Guru's Lair" as soon as possible. It's the first
> one on the top of the page. 
> 
> Thanks for helping...
> 
> duffy
> telecode@primenet.com

Please do not send further email to 'jchoate@tivoli.com' as this has
nothing to do with my business or the issue under discussion. ALL
correspondance should occur through 'ravage@ssz.com' or phone at
512-451-7087 (8pm - 10pm CST only). Should I receive further email
at Tivoli - IBM's site I will inform them of the breach on your part.

First, let's set the record straight. I was NEVER asked to do anything.
It was DEMANDED that I take the link down. When I explained that I would
not do that I received an email accussing me of criminal libel. Not what
I would call a request by any definition of that word. I don't like being
threatened and it makes me less than cooperative when it happens.

Furthermore, why should I take it down? Does the owner plan on dropping
the site and therefore it is a dead link? Certainly I will take it down
because it reflects badly on me having dead links.

As to where the html that I currently possess came from originaly, I
don't have a clue. I received it as a piece of email from somebody quite
a while ago (memory says over a year). If it really did come from The
Hackers Catalog and they are claiming copyright on it, I have no problem
removing their html, I would replace it with the same links using my own
text and html thereby removing the infringment. Is that what you are
requesting?

The next question that needs asked is whether there is any copyrighted
material other than The Hackers Catalog claim. The link does not use
any text or graphics from the target site. It furthermore does not even
explicity identify the link. So it is clear that there is no copyrighted
material from Don or his site residing on my server.

So, the remaining question is does Don have the legal right to limit who
may link to it. I do not believe that Don has any more right to decide
who can link or furthermore visit his sight than my own. This in effect
means none.

I believe the only reasonable responce that I can have to this 'request'
is to decline on any other issue other than removing the The Hackers
Catalog and replacing it with my own file.

So, are you representing The Hackers Catalog and requesting the removal
of their fragment of html? If so then I have no problem replacing the file
as soon as I receive a written notice from a legal representative detailing
the complaint and the time period I have to correct the situation.

If you are instead representing Don and requesting that I remove that
specific link because of his disatisfaction with its location then I must
refuse. I furthermore would request, as I have of Don, to forward me the
name and number of the appropriate lawyer so that my legal council may
contact them and begin proceedings.

Have a nice day.

                                               Jim Choate
                                               The Armadillo Group
                                               ravage@ssz.com
                                               512-451-7087