From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@amaranth.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:49:05 +0800
To: Jim Choate <ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com>
Subject: Re: Webpage picketing (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199706050354.WAA04800@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199706050444.XAA29186@mailhub.amaranth.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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In <199706050354.WAA04800@einstein.ssz.com>, on 06/04/97 
   at 10:54 PM, Jim Choate <ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com> said:

>Hi,

>Forwarded message:

>> From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@amaranth.com>
>> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 97 22:31:07 -0500
>> Subject: Re: Webpage picketing (fwd)

>> I as Joe Sixpack want to goto http://www.bigtits.com
>> 
>> You as goodie-2-shoes want to picket this site.
>> 
>> Inorder to do this you wish to have me goto http://www.NOW.com and see
>> their anti-porn page before I can see the bigtits page. (wether I actually
>> goto their website or the page is automatically downloaded is irrelevant
>> for the disscusion).

>Not exactly, I am saying it would be legaly permissible under the same
>chain of reasoning that allows picketing at a public sidewalk in front of
>a business to extend it to network traffic which traversed a public link
>in the chain of nodes between user and server. I am in effect saying the
>end point publicly funded servers on a section of publicly funded
>network, not the user or the actual target server (who again have no more
>stake in this than in an actual picket line - none), would be required to
>provide 3rd party single pages before serving the actual target of the
>user based upon the same sorts of situations that arise in meatland.

>Is that clearer?

>> Where exactly is it in the constution that say that your free speech
>> rights extend to the point where you can force me to read what you have to
>> say when I don't want to?

>The 1st Amendment, when you are traversing public property, be it a
>sidewalk or stretch of network cable. It is simply a matter of strategy
>and geography if for you to get to where you want to go you have to go
>through public property on which I desire to speak. Neither you nor your
>intended destination has anything to say about it.

>> I just don't see how you can make this leap regardless of who is doing the
>> funding.

>Then you don't understand how picketing works. To get to the private
>store you must cross public property. The public is free to use that
>property to their own ends within the law. The law allows, through the
>1st Amendment, anyone to stand on that public stip and make certain
>claims about adjacent private parties. Hell, you can legaly picket a
>private individuals house as long as you do it from the sidewalk - which
>by extension means that they could specificaly picket your personal
>server if they desired as long as they did it from a publicly funded
>stretch of network.

>> I'll leave the numerous analogies alone for a latter post. I just don't
>> see where anyone has the right to tell me what I must read.

>As long as you are not using everybody elses money (ie public funds) to
>get there they don't. But your not wanting to see the picketers in front
>of Bookstop on the sidewalk in no way impacts their right to be there and
>your total impunity to do anything about it legaly short of picketing
>yourself.

Well this is why I had wanted to set the analogies aside. There are some
real diferences between cyberspace and your metaspace analogy of the
picket line. In cyberspace there is no sidewalk for your picket to stand
and for me to pay as little or as much attention as I wish.

A more closer analogy between cyberspace and metaspace is that your
picketors are not standing off to the side but are blocking the door and
the only way I can enter is to read their signs first. This is the point
where your picketors have oversteped the bounds of their 1st Amendment
rights. While the have the right to picket infront of the store they
cannot interfere with the comming and goings of the customers. The has
been well tested in the courts. The problem with extending the picket
analogy to cyberspace is there are no sidewalks. It's all or nothing.
Either you are blocking the door or you are not.


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William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
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