From: Antonomasia <ant@notatla.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 04:26:58 +0800
To: paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
Subject: law as enemy: was Re: Jim Bell reference
Message-ID: <199707141829.TAA03188@notatla.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Paul,

Ant>                 Makes me think the issue is the preservation of many
Ant> thousands of _unathorised_ taps.  What else could explain that viewpoint?

PB> Don`t cloud the issue: The simple fact is strong encryption can and will 
PB> obstruct law enforcement agencies in their "fight" against terrorism, 
PB> child pornography, drugs etc... good.

Strong widespread crypto will cut down on much crime in the form of
electronic theft, blackmail etc.  I expect some obstruction of law
enforcement, but not enough to outweigh the benefits.  Despite the
occasionally glaring failures of a legal system it is still overall
of use to the public.


Ant> Incidentally, I'm against terrorism, child molestation etc etc. 
Ant> I'm confident most other cypherpunks are too, so no nonsense please
Ant> about free crypto supporters being backers of [crime of the month].

PB> Once again, you fail to give adequate qualification to this statement, 
PB> what forms of terrorism are you against: one mans terrorist is another 
PB> mans freedom fighter.   Were the French resistance during WWII terrorists? 

Not everything is relative.  WW2 was a clearly recognised war, in
which France had been invaded.

PB> Would you then say their actions were wrong? As for child molestation, 
PB> this is a clear cut case, most libertarians follow the basic rule that a 
PB> crime has to be a direct act of agression, and infringe the rights of 
PB> another person, therefore child molestation clearly comes into this 
PB> category, distributing pictures of children being molested, raped, 
PB> buggered, tortured and killed is clearly not a crime. Please clarify your 
PB> position on this.

Such photography would suggest at least cooperation with
those you'd regard as criminals.

My position is toward the Trei/Sameer end of the scale and away from
the extreme anarchist views of you, TCM and Jim Bell.  Not that you 3 are
always wrong, but in the issue of 'law always enemy' I completely fail
to see where you get your ideas.  Sufficiently clarified ?

PB> Above are two examples of why strong cryptography is a good thing, law 
PB> enforcement should be routinely obstructed as often as possible.

Are you going to post your home address and holiday plans on the list
so we give you the chance to gloat over failing law enforcement ?

There's probably not much point in pursuing this discussion.


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# Antonomasia   ant@notatla.demon.co.uk                       #
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