From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 15:00:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Palladin Press Announces "Home Composting" by Tim C. May
Message-ID: <199708040642.IAA12930@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote: 
> At 8:46 PM -0700 8/3/97, Anonymous wrote:
> >Joichi Ito wrote:
> >> As for Tim's message... I keep worrying (when I am in Japan) that I'm too
> >> radical, so it's nice to hear from someone who is really hardcore to put
> >> a wimp like me in my place. ;-P

> >  Actually, when Tim puts someone in what he considers to be their
> >place, it usually involves the purchase of a tombstone.
 
> Actually, the trick is to avoid having the body discovered. What goes into
> the 10 h.p TroyBilt Chipper/Shredder comes out not needing any kind of
> tombstone at all.

  This may explain why my paramilitarist neighbor's garden always does
so much better than mine. (It could also explain the bone fragments in
his garden potatoes.)

> Not that I have ever advocated killing mere folks like Joichi with whom I
> disagree strongly. (A new quote: "Killfiles don't need tombstones.")

  Definition of a CypherPunk tragedy: "A Killfile being deleted without
an ASCII Art message in it." 

> The point is, if Joichi Ito wants to ever be taken at all seriously, as a
> reasonable objective reporter of what is happening, his co-opting by the
> Japanese Self Defense Forces, Chobetsu, etc., for this "committee" on
> crypto policy, must be scrutinized, and almost certainly criticized.

  The JSDF, Chobetsu, etc., might well say the same thing about his
co-opting by the CypherPunks.
  I believe that you are right about scrutinizing and criticizing the
work of all politicians and reporters, but I doubt any of us could
ultimately reach agreement on what exactly constitutes being co-opted,
or exactly when one of "us" becomes one of "them."
  I value Declan McCullagh's reporting on privacy and crypto issues,
but I recognize the need to ask him to "take his shirt off" every now
and again so we can check to see if he has an alien creature stuck
to his back, controlling his mind.
  The problem with sending spies and secret agents into the enemy
camps has always been that they may grow to like the enemy's life-
style a little *too* much.

> >> And nothing but mischief will come out any meetings with government on
> >> "crypto policy," as their goals can never be our goals. At least in the
> >> U.S., despite obvious flaws, we have a "Congress shall make no law"
> >> provision which _tends_ to make government meddling in speech, such as
> >> meddling in crypto, more difficult.
> >
> >  I hope that the "flag" Tim is wrapping himself in isn't the same one
> >that he was burning yesterday.
> >  {Not that I'm accusing Tim of being purposely deceitful. It's just
> >that when we throw a "leaner" instead of a "ringer," they sometimes
> >lean in opposite directions.}
 
> Utter bullshit. I have cited the First, Second, and other provisions of the
> Constitution for the 5 years of this list. That I would prefer an even more
> anarchistic, market-oriented system than we now have, or that I dislike the
> hundreds of thousands of laws passed over the last 50 years, is no reason
> not to use the protections of the Constitution.

  Don't shoot, I was just being fascetious.
  To tell the truth, I find it confusing these days to figure out
*which*
flag is being burned, or used to wrap oneself in, these days. Is it the
flag that defends freedom or the flag that defends children? Is it the
flag that defends the Constitution or the flag that defends "national
security?" {And if it is the flag that defends the Constitution, then
*which* Constitution? The one the founders wrote, or the one being used
as a doormat at the Whitehouse?)
  
> And the line between an
> anarchocapitalist and a strict constuctionist is fine indeed. Anyone who
> thinks this is "deceitful" is probably one of those folks who says, "Oh,
> yeah, well if you dislike government why don't you just refuse to drive on
> public roads?

  Or, perhaps, "If you dislike government why don't you just refuse to 
participate in it?"
  Different strokes for different folks. Sometimes the pen is indeed
mightier than the sword (or a Ryder truck) and sometimes the almighty
dollar is mightier than either. Regardless, "We have met the enemy, and
he is us." probably comes closer to the heart of the problem with our
societies and governments than any socio-political analysis of the 
issues and events of our time.
  The problem is not who writes what, and the reasons behind it, the
problem is the aspect of our human nature which wants us to believe
in Santa Claus, benevolent government and the goodness of our fellow
man, despite evidence to the contrary. The problem is not who blows
up a building, or a city, the problem is the aspect of our human 
nature which wants us to paint the face of justice or terrorism on
the action instead of recognizing the injustice, regardless of the
necessity, or lack thereof, of the action.

  The bottom line is that, despite our personal beliefs as to "the
meaning of life" and the values and beliefs it should be lived by,
it may well be that this planet's true purpose is to serve as a
compost pile to provide nourishment for more intelligent forms of
life being grown/evolved elsewhere.
  {Keep an eye out for asteroids shaped like a "TroyBilt."}

TruthMonger