From: nobody@neva.org (Neva Remailer)
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:43:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: None
Message-ID: <199708200215.TAA12539@mail-gw2.pacbell.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 08:38 PM 8/18/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Things like the doublespeak of "mandatory voluntary" programs, the probable
>illegalization of tools to protect communications, and the "New World
>Order" machinations. (These being the behind the scenes pressures being
>applied to European and Asian governments, vis-a-vis Wasenaar, OECD, the
>secret meetings, the Orwellian language the governments are adopting to
>describe "trusted third parties (who actually provide keys to the
>authorities without telling the customer)," etc.)

I myself would never escrow my keys to anyone, regardless.  As far as I see it,  giving sensitive things like that to anyone but yourself is asking to be screwed.

>Not to mention the "felonization" of increasing numbers of things. Physical
>things that were bought fully legally are now "contraband." Except to cops,
>who are buying them in ever-increasing amounts. The sheeple, though, cannot
>be trusted to own the things the cops own freely. And I'm talking about
>more than just "compliance tools" (aka toilet plungers).

Maybe we'll see a ban on assault plungers in a few years.  We may have to register our assault plungers as well.

>Read the archived traffic of the list in the period surrounding the burning of the
>illegal religion in Waco, Texas. Or the traffic after a wife and son were
>killed by the cop criminal Lon Horiuchi (whom some militia members have
>placed a bounty on

FWIW, I wish someone would put a bounty on the murdering bastard marines who killed an innocent american defending himself against heavily armed fascists.  If we were half the damn great country we were in the beginning, he'd be plinking with an M-16A2, fu!
lly auto.  So if those bastards even twitched in the dark, they'd be ripped open like the pigs they are.

>I think you, "B.," have just gotten a lot more nervous that what many of us
>are advocating is in fact warfare against the State. I get e-mail from
>folks who were once active on the Cypherpunks list saying, in various ways,
>that they can no longer be as visible about their participation in the
>list, for multiple reasons.

Government fascism and investigation.

>Second, the apparent state of war between Cypherpunks and governments.
>After recent actions by freedom fighters to bomb stooge facilities,
>governments are treating "militias" as quasi-criminal organizations.

They treat everyone like a criminal organization.

>(There
>are many nuances to this point. In the U.S., I don't think such
>organizations have been outlawed, as the Constitution remains a protection
>of sorts.

Yeah, an original version still goes underground each night.  It seems to me soon Mr. KlinToon might replace it with a replica, so he can light a joint with it.  "Ahhhh, thar's nuthin' like freedom to light uh joint!"

>But many have been investigated, and, as John Young noted
>recently, the IRS treats membership in certain organizations as a threat.
>And there is Clinton's Anti-Terrorism Act, which explicitly makes certain
>kinds of financial and other activities illegal, even by Americans, which
>involve support of "terrorist" organizations.

So remember, in the future, speaking nicely about the cypherpunks may get you a free midnight raid by the military, being used illegally on U.S. soil.

>It is not inconceivable that,
>following outlawing of strong crypto in various countries, that the
>Cypherpunks group gets classified as an organization or group which
>supports terrorist goals, which is almost certainly true.)

Well, I guess that fascist countries like France, China, Russia, Burma, etc. will consider us bombmakers.

>Third, some of those who make the most extreme calls for the killing of
>Feds, the bombing of government operations in various nations, etc., are
>using remailers. Isn't this exactly what remailers are likely to be used
>for?

If they aren't shut down and raided first, by freedom and privacy thefting Sons of bitches.

How about a "Defensive Weapons for Remailer users (except for Ratprick Oink)" charity.

>Fourth, the arrest and prosecution of Jim Bell, with tax evasion and a
>minor stink bomb case turned into a "federal case" because of his
>controversial views.

So soon people like Phil Zimmerman, who believes in privacy for all, will be raided and stolen in the middle of the night, much like in 1984.

>This has obviously angered and radicalized many. Some
>of us have stocked up on more asault weapons and shotguns, placed alarms
>around our property, and we are expecting a "raid."

Well, luck be with you and shoot to kill people.

>As I have said, if
>black-clad ninja raiders try to hit me, I'll assume they're "home invaders"
>and will open fire. (A Sheriff's Deputy once told me that even saying I
>would defend my home against unwelcome intruders constituted a "threat" and
>that he might order a detachment to visit my compound. So far, two years
>later, he hasn't made good on _his_ threat. And now I'm more ready for him
>than ever.)

Time to make like Bob Marley and shoot the sheriff.

So now defending your home, something so basic of human rights its unabridgable, the right to live, essentially, is now illegal?  Fuck them all!!

>So when "DeathMonger" calls for the killing of
>Feds, who am I to suggest this discussion be squelched? Forcible
>censorship, once tried, often makes it effectively impossible for _any_
>kind of guidance or advice along these lines. (This is an utterly
>predictable outcome of attempts to censor.)

Many fascist god-fearing quivering sheeple feel differently.

>Finally, and to recap some of these points, when the Cypherpunks list and
>group first started, many did not take the "collapse of government"
>promises too seriously. Now, with even Louis Freeh and Janet Reno saying
>that strong crypto represents a major and urgent threat to governments
>(they call it "law enforcement" and "tax collection," and also talk about
>threats of unregulated gambling, unregulated access to medical data,
>uncontrolled communication between cult members, and so on), it seems that
>the dangers of crypto anarchy are being more widely trumpeted.

It's only dangerous, no, deadly, to fascist freedom-thefters like Freeh and "Flaming Davidian" Reno.  To freedom lovers, it's another tool of freedom, like guns, constitutions, and bombs.  Yes, BOMBS have won freedom, and guns as well.  As long as we excer!
size our right to defend freedom, our current gooberment will continue to crush those rights.  Guns were made for defense, especially towards tyrants.

>So, "B.," stop apologizing for reading the list. You're already a marked
>man in their eyes...and search engines can already identify the True Name
>who is posting the last year or two as "Zooko Journeyman." In a couple of
>years, all search engines will have "known aliases" macros to automatically
>ferret out the web of pseudonyms linkable to a poster. You can run, but you
>can't hide.

All the more reason to arm yourself.  If you can't hide, then fortify yourself in your home, armed to the teeth to deter invader maggots like swat teams, Marines and BATF agents.

>And "democracy" is spinning out of control, being used by authoritarians to
>convert the world into a security state. Restrictions on travel, new drug
>laws, laws against images and words on the Net, and thousands of new laws
>every years.

The best solution?  Nuke D.C., the current constitution, and reinstate the old one, start from scratch.  We've messed up the system, and it's time to start all over again.

>A frontal assault, using strong crypto to aid in the attacks by freedom
>fighters and to destablize authority, makes more sense. When a government
>official decrees that citizen-units may no longer do certain things which
>were once quite legal and quite common (such as owning a gun for defense),
>that official must expect certain repercussions.

Dead bodies of the soulless minions who inhabit fedral buildings, moving us toward Globalism.

>We're in a state of war with the statists and tyrants. It's what Jefferson
>and the other Founders expected to happen, and now the watering with the
>blood of patriots and tyrants is happening.

A text file:

Using this analogy, the Constitution is the fence, my sovereignty
is my property. The contract has been moved more and more into my
"property". Do I protect the fence? No, I move it back to where it
was. Even if I have to kick my neighbors ass to do it.

But I see it slightly differently. The fence hasn't been moved. It's been
torn down and ripped apart. On my side of the fence is me, my family
and my possesions; including a nice big banana tree.
On the other side of the fence is a 400lb gorilla, just eyeing that
banana tree.
As the fence gets erroded by weather, insects and rodents, the gorilla
is getting bolder and bolder.
My solution is a) shoot the gorilla (100% effective, but somewhat
drastic) or b) rebuild the fence, kill the insects and poison the rats.
So to keep my bananas, I'm forced w/rebuilding the fence, or if that
fails, shoot the gorilla. I'd rather rebuild the fence, as that gorilla
can be mighty entertaining, but if the fence is coming down faster than
I can rebuild it, the gorilla is history.
So I ask you: Can we rebuild the fence or is it time to take aim?

>It's what the Founders expected.  Get used to it.

Agreed.

>If crypto anonymity tools were available to the Founders, they'd have used
>them against the British. Likewise, strong crypto is already being used by
>the freedom fighters in Palestine against the Zionist Occupation
>Government. That PGP 5.0 is being used by Hamas should send chills through
>the ZOG in Jerusalem, and is probably why Cypherpunks is about to be
>classed as a "terrorist group."

To israelis, anyway.

>(What happened to the Jews in WW II was terrible, of course, but that was
>no excused for forcibly evicting vast numbers of "sand niggers" so as to
>make room for Jewish settlers. Their sons and grandsons will now end up
>paying the price, as freedom fighters drive them into the sea. Broken eggs
>and all.)

Much like how some schills on the list blasted someone for weeping over the death of McVeigh.

"You can't be serious, he murdered innocent kids!"

"I hope McVeigh fries.  Same to his friend Terry.

I Hope the writer of that fries.  Along with those in government.

Can we rebuild?  I doubt it.

Therefore, sincerely,

LOCK AND LOAD.

FreedomMonger
"There's something wrong when modern military weapons can't be used by americans, but military weapons in 1776 were used daily by citizens."

Military uniforms aren't even speed-bumps for bullets entering them.