From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 10:31:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Inside the Cypherpunks Cult
In-Reply-To: <19970819234915.63274@bywater.songbird.com>
Message-ID: <v03102801b022a6162125@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:29 PM -0700 8/21/97, Duncan Frissell wrote:


>One minor difference is that most cults don't manage to convince the head of
>the FBI and various other national leaders that their scenario is possible.
>[I'm not saying that we actually convinced anyone ourselves but we certainly
>share a vision of a possible future with Freeh and various intelligence
>types.]  They talk about their fears of digital anarchy all the time.  I
>don't remember the FBI director talking about the Lamb and the Book of Rev
>like Koresh or about the saucer behind Hale-Bopp like Heaven's Gate.
>
>Not an ordinary cult.
>
>DCF
>
>"If Vince Foster had a gun he'd be alive today."

Or the variant, "If Nicole Brown Simpson had a gun, she'd be a rich widow
today."

On the subject of cults, neither do cult leaders sit on panels at the
Computers, Freedom, and Privacy conference and mingle with the leading
lawyers, law professors, NSA employees, and Justice Department
representatives.

(As I have said, though this may have been before Crispin's time on this
list, I've had polite contacts with Stuart Baker, former top counsel to the
NSA, over the years. He clearly disagrees with my political agenda, as I do
with his (though he is showing some backbone as top lawyer arguing against
the CALEA/DT provisions).

Yes, it is obviously a bit of hyperbole to say we long for the nuking of
Washington. In fact, the way this thread started, at least my involvement
in it, was by my comment that if a soft target like D.C. were to vanish in
a puff of nuclear smoke, I wouldn't cry any tears. "So sue me."

And I actually do think unbreakable crypto will have profound effects on
taxation, which the government thinks is so, also. And will make it
possible for virtual communties to communcate securely, including for the
planning and execution of freedom fighting or "terrorist" activities. The
government also agrees with this one.

Where we differ is that first, I don't worry overmuch about what some
foreigners are doing to other foreigners. I take George Washington at his
word: avoid foreign entanglements. Not America's business if the Hutus are
killing the Tutsis, or vice versa, or if the Nazis are killing the Jews, or
vice versa.

Second, we differ in that I don't think converting the U.S., or the world,
into a totalitarian, surveillance state is an acceptable price to pay to
stop some crimes. Louis Freeh believes otherwise.

Third, these forces, once unleashed, have an unfolding force of their own.
Denning admits this, Freeh admits this, Reno admits this, Baker admits
this. Which is why the government is so concerned.

Hardly the stuff of a cult, is it?

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."