From: Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:39:11 +0800
To: jbaber@mi.leeds.ac.uk
Subject: Re: REPOST : Un-forgeable Cancels
In-Reply-To: <12867.9708080920@misun2.mi.leeds.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <199708081127.MAA00177@server.test.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jon Baber <jbaber@mi.leeds.ac.uk> writes:
> 1	When any message is sent a hash X is calculated as :
> 
> 			X = HASH(Mid,S)
> 
> 	where	Mid is the Message ID 
> 		S is a secret controlled by the author (eg a pass phrase)
> 
> 2	The hash value Y is then calculated such that:
> 
> 		Y = HASH(X) = HASH(HASH(Mid,S))
> 
> Any comments/glareing weaknesses that I have missed?

Sounds good to me.  I thought there was someone doing something like
this with hashes.  But then I never really looked into any of the
systems.  What does Greg Rose's PGPMoose do?  (One presumes it
involves PGP sigs?)

> This does assume that message IDs are available by the news program
> and are not allocated after sending. If this is not the case then it
> would be necessary to use other header information to calculate the
> hash such as the date/time and subject, or to store some kind of key
> at the authors end in order to reference the message (although in
> this case X may as well just be generated randomly and stored).

I think you don't even need this much uniqueness of hashing
material...

Say you just chose a random R and store it in ~/.news-preimage, and
HASH( R ) in ~/.news-image.

Now you post all of your posts with HASH( R ) in a header as you are
suggesting.

Now if you didn't want to be coerced in to cancelling your own posts
you just remove .news-preimage instantly.

You have to update your preimage for each cancel you do, but how many
cancels do people do anyway?  (Not many for their own benefit I
reckon).


This is a low security application, and ease of use over user typed
passwords will win I think.

Conceivably you could cope with the above by making .news-image
readable to the news system on your local net news service.  This
could transparently do the job without needing to update any clients
-- only an INN patch required.  Sounds like a phun project for
someone.

Issueing cancels would be more manual, but you could easily knock up a
perl script to instruct the NNTP server to do that.  (Or windows
program, or whatever).

If you really wanted to integrate cancels without updating clients,
for those that support them you'd have to give the NNTP news server
access to your preimage, R.  Not sure this is a good idea, as now your
ISP can be coerced into cancelling your message for you without your
cooperation.

Course all these problems go away if you do update clients, but it's
usually nice to offer an easy interim migration path, else no-one will
use it.

Adam
-- 
Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`