From: Jim Choate <ravage@ssz.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:39:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Removing Tyranny from Democracy (Part II), (fwd)
Message-ID: <199709100241.VAA07451@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:02:37 -0700
> From: Steve Schear <azur@netcom.com>
> Subject: Re: Removing Tyranny from Democracy (Part II), (fwd)

> >> No intrinsic flaws in democracy?
> >>
> >> Surely you jest.
> >
> >Please be so kind as to detail your top three flaws...
> 
> I think my Parts II and III detailed a number of shortcomings of democracy,
> at least when the franchise goes to 'employees' as opposed to 'customers'
> of government.

I have read 'The Sovereign Individual' as well so am somewhat familiar with
the thesis they propose. I will ask you the same question I would ask of
Davidson & Rees-Mogg...

Assume that we accept this thesis that the best way to run a government is
to structure it such that customers set policies and procedures. What
inherent protections does that give me regarding abuse by the system? How
do you propose to keep the majority from deciding that it is uneconomical to
protect my rights as some minority group? A careful study of business
practices versus race or socio-economic group (as expressed by dress) will
quickly show that persons of the wrong 'type' receive less service than
those of more acceptable groups. The sort of service the customer receives
is after all in the hands of the salesperson, not the customer.

Let's look at an admittedly contrived example but I believe it will suffice.
There are two fires at opposite ends of the coverage area for a fire house.
On Saturday they receive a call to go to one end, where the wealthy live.
Would you have the owner pay prior to the firemen putting the fire out?
Would they pay some premium beforehand? Now on Sunday a fire occurs on the
other end where the poor are. Assuming they can't pay the bill would the
firemen drive away? If so, wouldn't this in fact pose a threat not only to
the other poor but also the wealthy since the fire might spread if it got
large enough. Would the wealthy then be asked to pay for that run of the
fire truck? What if they refused, how would the firemen pay for the food to
feed their family? Perhaps go out and burn down more rich houses...

If there are not some inherent or explicit checks in place then such a
econo-government would reduce to mob-rule just as happens with democracy
without explicit bills of rights. Neither you or Davidson/Rees-Mogg address
this issue sufficiently. Furthermore, neither you or the authors address
exactly why such a government would abandon the use of force totaly. Exactly
why would this form of government reduce say burglary, thereby eliminating
the need for police. Is this form of government going to do away with bomb
weilding weenies, I doubt it, so we clearly have a need for federal or
national level law enforcement fully armed. Since it is clear that all 200+
world governments would not abandon their current forms of government there
is a clear and present danger from outside our borders. How do we protect
ourselves from this threat? You can't pay them not to attack you, otherwise
you are doing exacly what the system was supposed to avoid doing - paying
tributes.

You want a government with minimal intervention, the issue is not whether
it is a democracy or a econo-government or even a communism. What
measures that is the rights of the people recognized by the government
and how the government respects those rights.


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