From: "Brian B. Riley" <brianbr@together.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 05:38:15 +0800
To: "CypherPunks List" <cypherpunks@Algebra.COM>
Subject: Re: LACC:  DEA Agents Accuse CIA of Tapping Phones
Message-ID: <199709182118.RAA26741@mx01.together.net>
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   I sent a copy of this post to a buddy of mine who retired from the
CIA not too long ago ... these were his comments on the matter; FWIW.

>>>But legal experts say it could be a difficult lawsuit to
>>>win, especially since an employer - in this case the
>>>government - generally has a right to listen to employee
>>>conversation on office phones.
>
>They're right.
>
>>>It also doesn't help that national security was involved
>>>and that courts have held that U.S. citizens don't have
>>>constitutional rights overseas.
>
>Completely wrong. No court has so ruled; the writer is confusing 
>the Bern Convention, signed by almost every nation on earth, which 
>formally establishes the the rule of "lex loci," or law of the land 
>where the individual is found. This is only a common-sense 
>restatement of old principles of Roman AND common law, whereby a 
>national of country X can never act with impunity in country B. 
>It's as old as Hammurabi. There is NO "ruling" that establishes 
>that an American citizen forfeits his Constitutional rights 
>vis-a-vis the United States Government, and to claim otherwise is 
>to insult the truth. 
>
>>>``It's an uphill battle. It's going to be a tough suit,'' said
>>>constitutional law expert Paul Rothstein of Georgetown
>>>University.
>
>Maybe so. But it'll be fun to watch. We've known for years now that 
>the jackbooted thugs of the DEA are by far the most law-abusing, 
>disrespectful, rights-sneering, down-and-dirty, life-threatening, 
>hair-raising agents of the entire US Government. Bar none. They've 
>got to be watched, because they're a nasty threat to individual 
>liberty, and because they routinely interfere with the legitimate 
>work of other American intelligence agencies. (And they've been 
>monitored, by the way, since at least 1984, to my knowledge.) 
>
>>>"It is not the CIA's mission, nor is it part of the
>>>operations of the agency, to surveil in any manner
>>>U.S. officials, or other U.S. citizens at home or
>>>abroad,'' Mansfield said.
>
>Well, that's the kind of in-your-face lying that brings deserved 
>contempt down on the heads of the intelligence community. I disdain 
>it, and have done so publicly. The sonofabitch needs to say openly 
>that you're damned right the CIA and NSA do this, and here's WHY we 
>do it... 
>
>>>The only exception would be in counterintelligence
>>>cases, he added, and then only in consultation with
>>>senior Justice Department officials.
>
>Yeah. A GS-12 giggler.
>
>>>In Horn's previous case, Leighton said, the Justice
>>>Department angered DEA agents by claiming they
>>>have no Fourth Amendment constitutional right
>>>against wiretapping when working outside the
>>>country.
>
>See? The ignorance of DEA agents is legendary!
>
>>>Leighton, a former federal prosecutor, said the
>>>lawsuit doesn't address the reasons for the alleged
>>>electronic eavesdropping.
>
>Ever heard of Title 18 of the US Code, stupid one?
>
>>>"My assumption is because they want to know
>>>what DEA is doing, they want to rip off DEA
>>>informants, they want to know DEA contacts
>>>within foreign governments,'' Leighton said.
>>>``And with the Cold War over, these agencies
>>>are looking for a new mission.''
>
>Nice try, slick. But it ain't so much the desire for their network 
>as it is a desire to prove that a huge number of DEA agents have 
>been involved in drug-running and foreign government corruption for 
>at least 14 years now. Like that?
>
>>>Horn's residence ``was the target of a U.S.
>>>Government Agency-sponsored electronic audio
>>>intercept,'' it said.
>
>I'd love to be on the stand here. I'd LOVE to hear this arrogant 
>schmuck try and "prove" that the "tap" (if there ever was one) was 
>of US origin! What an ignorant ass...
>
>>>"Horn had occasion to see a cable containing
>>>his words in quotation marks, that he had spoken
>>>to another DEA agent, set forth exactly as stated...''
>
>Tsk tsk. Imagine that. And of course it just never occurs to the 
>fool that we can also derive such intel from third-party sources 
>and governments. 
>
>>>The suit, assigned to U.S. District Judge Harold H. Greene,
>
>Oh, yea! The same trigger-happy judge that fathered the infamous 
>AT&T dismemberment! 
>  Hoo-boy!

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Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr
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  "It is one of the most beautiful compensations in life that no 
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       -- Ralph Waldo Emerson