From: decius@ninja.techwood.org (Decius 6i5)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:11:12 +0800
To: sirdavid@ktc.com
Subject: Plea for help from IRS; Liberty?
Message-ID: <m0xEOca-000045C@r32h116.res.gatech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>        Plea from a parent who wants to keep their kid free of SSNs
>                                       
>  David C. Treibs
>  Fredericksburg, TX 78624
>  sirdavid@ktc.com
>   
>  We are in trouble with the IRS, and we need help.

<SNIP>

>   For Liberty,

Although your attempts to free your children from the database
establishment are admirable, please do not confuse your fight with the
government over who has the "right" to >CONTROL< your children with a
fight for "liberty." If your children decided they did not want to live
in your house anymore, I'm sure you'd have the police round them up. If
you were truely concerned with liberty, you'd be concerned with your
CHILDRENS' liberty... And if so I doubt you'd have made the following
statement:  

>   The Clintons are also working to push us into the UN Rights of the
>   Child
>   Treaty, which shifts many parental rights and responsibilities to the
>   government. The Clintons want to bypass parents and directly access
>   children. How do you think they plan to monitor and enforce compliance
>   with this horrible treaty? The SSN, in my opinion.
   
I am going to jump to the conclusion here that you have neither read this
treaty nor do you have the slightest clue what it says or what it means. 
I might be wrong about that, but then you might wish to explain where
"monitoring" and "enforcement" and Social Security Numbers fall into what
is basically a restatement of the American Bill of Rights with the express
demand that these rights be extended to minors. 

The United States is one of the few countries in the western world that
hasn't signed it? Why? Due to numerous complex generational, economic, and
political issues it has become extremely popular to blame the problems of
the world on fanciful "youth predators." As a result, minors in the United
States may be tried as adults in court, despite the fact they they cannot
even gain standing in court and press charges themselves. They may be
executed as an adult, but they may not vote as one. (Incidentally, the
American practice of executing minors is extremely rare internationally
and is one of the big reasons why this country remains on Humanity
International's bad guy list along side places where slavery is legal.) 
Minors have very little right to freedom of speech and thought. Minors
have no right to privacy.

If the US signed this treaty they would have to remove the metal detectors
from the schools, they would have to stop requiring that children carry
see-through bags, they would have to allow children the right to express
their beleifs, they would have to stop enforcing "anti-gang" curfew laws
and loitering laws (which are far more common in peaceful suburban
communities than in places that actually have problems with youth
violence), and worst of all, they would have to allow children to file
lawsuits against abusive parents. (Those who follow internet politics
might wish to note that at the same time the Christian Coallition was
screaming "protect the children from internet porn" they were also, more
quitely, protesting state's ability to interfere in cases of child
abuse... this is considered pro-family.) 

Although I no longer have to endure the numerous restrictions that the
government places on minors, I am not yet old enough to have forgotten
what it feels like to be treated like a criminal because of an arbitrary
number overwhich I have no control, and ultimately because of a newspaper
editor's profit motive. Have you ever been arrested simply because you
chose to take a walk during an unapproved time of day?

Although I do agree that the government should not have the ability to
control how you raise your children; I feel that these "restrictions"
cannot be lifted until children have the ability to fight back, or leave,
when serious problems arise. The Christian Coallition would have us return
to the days of Victorian "values" where child and spousal abuse were so
common place that they were considered normal activity and protected by
law. So I ask you not to confuse what you are doing with a fight for
liberty. Liberty is not about your rights. Liberty is about everyone's
rights. 
          
-- 
        */^\*  Tom Cross AKA Decius 615 AKA The White Ninja  */^\* 
                       Decius@ninja.techwood.org

"If the economic, social and political conditions... do not offer a basis 
for the realization of individuality, while at the same time people have 
lost those ties which gave them security... powerful tendencies arise to 
escape from freedom into submission." -- Erich Fromm