From: Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 03:36:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Plea from a parent who wants to keep their kid free of SSNs
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970925115935.1676I-100000@well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:12:58 +0000
From: "David C. Treibs" <sirdavid@ktc.com>
To: "(David C. Treibs)" < (SirDavid@ktc.com)>
Subject: Need Help with IRS Problems

                                        David C. Treibs
                                        Fredericksburg, TX 78624
                                        sirdavid@ktc.com

Hi.

We are in trouble with the IRS, and we need help.

For religious reasons (explained below), we do not have Social Security
numbers for our children, the oldest of 4 being 5 years old.

Last year we sent in our return, as we have always done, without SSNs
for our children. My wife and I do have social security numbers, and we
sent those. IRS sent us a letter saying they were disallowing our
exemptions since we had no SSNs for them. They gave us the opportunity
to contest their disallowance, which we did by sending them our
children's birth certificates; and letters from our parents, and a letter
from our pediatrician, stating the children we claimed were indeed our
children and our dependents. We don't have a problem proving that we are
claiming legitimate dependents.

IRS accepted the information we sent them, and accepted our exemptions.

This year we again sent IRS our return without numbers for our children,
but this time we included the letter of acceptance for last year's
return, and again they said they are disallowing our exemptions, and
they want $1,175.79. I called the telephone number on the letter and
spoke with the lady who answered, explaining what we did last year and
how the IRS accepted our tax return. The lady said "now we have new
rules." She asked, "What religion are you," as if it mattered. When I
told her we were Christians, she paused as though to consult some
paperwork, and then she said, "those children need social security
numbers or you cannot claim them." She mentioned the Tax Reform Act of
1996 and Publication 553 as being the enabling documents that brought on
this change.

That same day I called U.S. Rep. Lamar Smith's office and explained the
situation. The nice lady in the San Antonio office said she would pass
the information to the Kerrville office, and they would do what they
could. The lady in the Kerrville office made several inquiries. She
repeatedly said we had the right to appeal, and she sent us a copy of:

--Internal Revenue Code: Income, Estate, Gift, Employment and Excise
Taxes ss 1001-End As of Sept 15, 1996, Volume 2. Subtitle F, Ch. 61B,
Sec 6109(a)-6109(h).

    Sec. 6109(e)--Repealed
    Is the rather odd heading for the only part I could find in the
    portion of the Code they sent me that says you must have a SSN or
    you will not be allowed an exemption. I wonder if that means the
    section is repealed? But then, the probably have it in some other
    section that the SSN is required. See IRC Sec. 151 (97) below.

--What appears to be a news release titled:
Valid Taxpayer Identification Numbers Needed For Returns
1996 IRB LEXIS 344; IR-96-50

--Internal Revenue Code...This section is current through 105-15,
approved 5/15/97.
Subtitle A. Income Taxes
Chapter 1. Normal Taxes and Surtaxes
Subchapter B. Computation of Taxable Income
Part V. Deductions for Personal Exemptions

    IRC Sec. 151 (1997)

    (e) says no exemption will be allowed unless the Taxpayer
    Identification Number is included on the return.

At present we are awaiting a letter from IRS, which we assume will state
that we must either provide SSNs for our children or pay up, and they
will probably give us 60 days or less to do either.

Having received the above distressing information, we called a San
Antonio, Texas, CPA, Ken Flint, a former IRS agent who now specializes
in helping people in trouble with the IRS. He said it would cost us more
to fight them than to simply pay the extra money. He sounded
sympathetic, if somewhat busy, and told us we could do the appeal if we
knew the law and IRS procedures. Unfortunately, I know neither.

Perhaps at this stage you could help us. I need to hear from someone who
has successfully appealed this sort of thing and won.

What are the applicable laws?
What is the case law in this matter?
What are the IRS procedures in these matters?

Are there any laws that might give us an out, such as the Religious
Rights Restoration Act, and other such high sounding laws?

Is there an attorney out there who wants to make a precedent out of this
for us and all the other like-minded folks?

If you have no direct knowledge of IRS laws and procedures, perhaps you
could pass this to a forum or organization or individual who could.

While we are aware of the various movements such as the sovereign
citizen, the patriots, tax protesters, and so on, we prefer to work
within the system to win our case. This is simply our preference.

We don't have a problem with proving that we are not making bogus claims
on our tax returns. We'd be happy to give them whatever reasonable proof
they want. We do have a big problem with giving our children a
government number.

The Bible gives the responsibility of raising children to parents, not
to the government or any other entity.

Forcing Social Security Numbers on children represents a major violation
of parents' God-given responsibility.

The SSN's powers can be divided into two basic categories: monitoring
and control; neither of which is within government's purview in dealing
with children. These are entirely the parents' job, Hillary Clinton's
postulations that "It Takes a Village" notwithstanding.

Once a child has a SSN, they are forever a blip on the government radar,
to be tracked, and to be the recipient of whatever government decides it
must foist upon children and their families.

SSN's are already used in our public school district to track students.
Much of their test scores and who knows what personal data is in the
district's computers, including a SSN. The district told us it probably
won't be long before all this data is sent to the state, and how long
will it be before this information ends up with the federal government?

The Clintons are working to push us into nationalized health care,
including government health care for children. Did you ever wonder how
they plan to track all these children, to ensure they are receiving all
the "benefits" of their plans? Very likely, the SSN. The "benefits"
might include "inoculations" against pregnancy, which amounts to
powerful birth control/abortifacient drugs, parental consent not needed
or desired. Then, of course, there is the "education,"
accompanying this government intrusion into child health, which is
irreconcilably opposed to my beliefs.

The Clintons are also working to push us into the UN Rights of the Child
Treaty, which shifts many parental rights and responsibilities to the
government. The Clintons want to bypass parents and directly access
children. How do you think they plan to monitor and enforce compliance
with this horrible treaty? The SSN, in my opinion.

Once every child has a SSN, it will also be easier for the state to
nose in on the parent's job. With the recent birth of our fourth child,
we were told that a state social worker from the welfare department
would be visiting our home, and the home of everyone who has a child. If
our child had a SSN, they could easily computerize all her data and then
link it to any other data from us, our other children, and so on. It
could be done without SSNs, but it would be more difficult and time
consuming, and on a large scale, next to impossible.

The state of Texas provides a good example of what a state will do when
given access to the power of the SSN. Starting this year Texas requires
SSNs to issue a driver's license. Now that they have linked the
driver's license with a SSN, they can easily access a person's records,
including court records, and anyone not paying child support may be
denied a driver's license. This is just one example of the power of the
SSN, and how government can use it to force its agenda on the populace.

Whatever government grants or allows, it can withhold or restrict based
on whatever is politically correct at the time, if they have the tools
to do so. When people who disagree with you hold power over you, and
when they want to extend that power to your children, you better be
ready for trouble.

The SSN enables anyone with access to the right data bases to know every
address you ever had; details about your job, income, and taxes; school
records; all financial transactions not made with greenbacks; probably
all your telephone and utility details, including all your phone calls;
doctor, hospital, and other medical details; all court and police
records; and on and on and endlessly on.

This is all your personal information, available to government at the
snap of a finger, and this information is power. Now imagine if every
child has a SSN, that power will extend down to the womb even more than
it does now.

We are not willing to give the government power over our children. Why
should we, when children are none of government's business until they
reach adulthood? Why tempt government with all that power, when they
have already proven they will abuse it?


                   For Liberty,
                   David C. Treibs (sirdavid@ktc.com)