From: Anonymous <anon@anon.efga.org>
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 14:48:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Unicorn an NSA agent?  WAS: New PGP "Everything the FBI ever dre
Message-ID: <6c75e10930c5232799155573a91e46a5@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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Black Unicorn wrote:
>Remember when the phone company used to lease you your phone?  Surely
>that doesn't make the data that goes over the phone their property?
>If my doctor calls me at work with the results of a critical test,
>you believe that data is no longer private?  I hope not.  You think
>whatever goes on in a rental car I drive is the property of the
>rental company?  That if some company rented the car they are
>entitled to read whatever papers I have in there?  What about a
>hotel?  A leased apartment?  A restraunt back room?  I challenge the
>"ownership gives the owner the right to all that occurs or is
>produced on or in the property" premise because it is just not a
>valid one, legally or (in my opinion) ethically.

Mr. Avon is talking about agreements, I believe, although he is using
the private property approach to argue that there is certainly a
meeting of the minds between the two parties.

It seems reasonable that employees may agree to give up their rights,
for example their inalienable right to stay at home and watch TV, in
exchange for employment.

When the employment agreement is at will, as most are, it seems
reasonable that the company may change it whenever it pleases: "If you
wish to continue working here, you will have to let the company read
your mail."

This is complicated by the bizarre legal environment which employers
face in the United States.  In practice one would have difficulty
terminating an employee by changing the "at will" agreement.

More generally, it seems a good guess that Mr. Avon would not object
to an agreement with a company in which the company was able to
continuously monitor the employees communications or activities.
(This is why the private property approach can confuse people: this is
not the core issue.)

>[I'm not on cypherpunks anymore, anyone there who wants to put me
>through the wringer without having to endure my response might not
>want to CC: me.]

Guess you miss out, then.  ;-)

Monty Cantsin
Editor in Chief
Smile Magazine
http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html
http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html

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