From: Anonymous <anon@anon.efga.org>
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 05:34:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: "Show me an example of terrorists using the Internet or crypto"
Message-ID: <6489040e71db5edc2ab5e653cb709620@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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Alex Le Heux wrote:
>Maybe you haven't noticed, but seen on 2000 year scales, the entire
>world is constantly in a state of war. Europe isn't special in that
>regard.

I guess the conclusion, then, is that gun control is bad for the whole
world, not just Europe.

>And even if I had my AR15 then, it wouldn't help me a lot against
>guided missiles and mortar fire.

It's harder to police a hostile population which is well armed.

>And anyway, "to defend yourself in a war" is not one of the usual
>arguments against gun control.

The popularity of an argument can be independent of its worth.

"To defend yourself in general" is commonly used.  War, oppressive
government, and political turbulence are the most likely situations in
which people need their weapons, even in the United States.

>> You must be getting some good drugs over there to conjure up this
>> fantasy land where everyone loves one another and would never think
>> of killing someone because it sure as hell doesn't exist in Europe.
>
>Well, we're a lot closer to it over here than you guys are over
>there.

You mean like the former Yugoslavia?  Or do you mean like the parts of
Europe where people are not slaughtering each other at the moment?

I have to confess that I am surprised at the level of resentment among
the members of various Europeans countries feel towards other European
countries.  For example, the Germans don't like the Dutch because when
they visit they are treated badly by, among others, the police.  The
Dutch don't like the Germans because, well, they got to know them a
little too well in the 1940s and they are nursing the grudge.

With that sort of situation, anything can happen and it can happen
quickly, even if things seem mellow right now.  And these little
resentments and jealousies are felt between far more groups in Europe
than just between the Dutchies and the Germans.

Let's also take a look at the Dutch performance during their
occupation.  While there certainly were many courageous Dutch people
who helped refugees (at great personal risk, to say the least), and
there were many courageous Dutch people who were in the resistance,
there were also many Dutch people who did not perform so well.  Not
only were a large number of Jewish people turned in by Dutch
informers, but there were even Dutch SS units.

I basically think well of the Netherlands and its people, but it is
important to recognize that certain unpleasant characteristics exist
in a large portion of the population of even a nice country.  It is
unlucky to pretend that these characteristics can never be expressed.

Let's turn to the Western Hemisphere: El Salvador.  During much of the
1980s, the U.S. government supported groups of people in El Salvador
who were sending out death squads to murder their suspected opponents.
The U.S. certainly acquiesced in this activity - of this there is no
doubt.  But, it is not unlikely the U.S. was more directly involved.
(Only fifteen years earlier the U.S. was doing the same thing in
Vietnam.)

What would have happened if the citizens of El Salvador were
adequately armed?  One thing you wouldn't see is a death squad going
into a neighborhood to kick down some innocent's door and murder him
or his family.  At least, you wouldn't see it twice.

Likewise, when the communist guerrillas were forcing (maybe) the
peasantry to support them, the peasants would have no need to
cooperate unwillingly if they were well armed.

People who are well armed are less likely to become pawns, victims, or
slaves.  That is desirable.

Incidentally, the consistent support the U.S. government has shown for
murderous or even genocidal governments is of great concern to those
of us who live in the U.S.  It is unlikely that these tactics won't be
used here were there a serious political struggle and a disarmed
population.

An issue that might possibly blossom into such a political struggle is
mass surveillance.  While the mass media is, for the most part, giving
everything the government's spin, and while large numbers of
Congressmen and other denizens of Washington, D.C. think it's a good
idea, the bulk of the population is not happy about this at all.  They
can read the writing on the wall.  The potential for conflict between
the political class, which has a long history of murder and even
assassination, and the American people exists right now.

Monty Cantsin
Editor in Chief
Smile Magazine
http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html
http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.html

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