From: Jim Choate <ravage@ssz.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 10:18:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: poverty traps (Re: Sa (fwd)
Message-ID: <199710260243.VAA31587@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 21:24:20 -0400
> From: Anonymous <anon@anon.efga.org>
> Subject: Re: poverty traps (Re: Sa

> >In order for her to be able to work her two youngest kids go to a
> >day-care-center. Wham! $1000 per month (hiring a baby-sitter would
> >amount to even more).
> 
> Janice should be baby sitting.  Were she to take in 4 kids at
> $500/month, she would make as much as her job and be able to watch her
> own kids during the same time.  This income need not be reported.

Wrong, this income not only must be reported but in every state that I am
aware of you need a license to legaly do baby-sitting for hire.  Many
states, such as Texas, won't let you do it from your home. You even
need one in Texas to baby-sit peoples pets, though you can do that from
your home if your yard is big enough for the number of pets you are 
licensed to sit.

Have Janice go to jail for tax-evasion and lack of a license isn't going to
do her or her kids a lick of good.

> >Her apartment costs $800/month excluding utilities. That leaves $200
> >(+ $800 she gets in child-support) per month for _five_ people to
> >live on (clothes, food, utilities, school-books, gas for the car,
> >etc.etc.)
> 
> Uh, doesn't this mean $1000/month for five people after rent has been
> paid?
> 
> Telephone: $20/month

Not counting long-distance to grandma and grandpa, other relatives.

> Electricity: $40/month (?)
> Heat: $100/month (?)

Let's combine electricity and gas into a single bill, since this will cover
both of these. You're probably looking at $150 - $200 a month with 6 kids.
You're also leaving out water and waste-water which adds another $50-$100
considering 6 kids and their baths and such.

> Food: $600/month (generous)

Hell, I'm single and come close to this and food costs in Texas are a LOT
lower than in New York. Though I do eat out at lunch every weekday. And no,
I don't go partying regularly at all. Way too busy with work (>16hrs/day
5 days a week & 16-20 on weekends) to do that other than a couple of times a
month. I went to the store today and bought enough food for 4 days and it
cost me $30. So that comes to something like $250 - $300 for me not counting
lunches, and that's for just a single person. Multiply that for 6 and the
numbers are considerably higher.

> Goodwill Clothes: $100/month (generous)
> Total: $860/month
> 
> The food is generous because four of the five are kids, the oldest
> only being 12.  Kids don't each much.

Man, you must not know the kids I know. Not only do they eat a lot they
waste a lot because they seldom finish 'adult' size portions.

> Clothing at the Goodwill costs next to nothing.  $1200/year should be
> more than enough, not even considering that the younger kids can wear
> clothing cast off by the older kids.

Not exactly true. The hand-me downs are 1-gen old when the first kid gets
them. By the 2nd or 3rd kid the clothes will be too worn out and soiled
to wear. My parents were dirt poor and I got lots of hand-me-downs as a kid
and can speak from personal experience here. They might last two kids.

While we're at it let's not forget the various school supplies and other
things the kids will need, medical and dental costs (my experience is that
government agencies don't cover 100%), then there's toys, books, music, etc.
Even considering buying everything used and using the public library this is
going to be a very tight budget.

You also left out auto costs such as gasoline, oil, normal maintenance,
insurance, registration, etc. Birthdays, Christmas, Mothers Day, Fathers
Day, movies with friends and such, hair-cuts (it's clear she won't have time
to do that herself), pets, kids hobbies, life insurance, etc.

Nope, your figures are WAY off.

My guess is that you are either single or if married your wife has her own
career and you each make at least $45k. Also, no kids or more than one pet.

You don't raise good kids by sticking them in a closet wearing burlap sacks
and feeding them scraps.


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