From: harka@nycmetro.com
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 19:38:06 +0800
To: CYPHERPUNKS@ssz.com
Subject: Re: Saving money
Message-ID: <199710251158.GAA28570@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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 > At 10:00 PM -0700 10/24/97, harka@nycmetro.com wrote:

 > While I am glad for your achievements, you have not addressed my
 > point: all this doesn't apply to the larger mass of people.

 -=> Quoting In:tcmay@got.net to Harka <=-

 In> As I recall your point, it was that most people are a few weeks away
 In> from running out of money and hence cannot change jobs readily. I was
 In> saying that a small amount of self-discipline and sacrifice can quite
 In> easily translate into having a few _months'_ worth of savings.

That may indeed work for some people, but the argument of
"self-discipline and sacrifice" usually goes overboard once people
_other than yourself_ are severely affected by that. "Sorry hun,
you can't have a new winter-coat. Mommy has to save enough money so
that she can choose the people she works for. And no...no christmas
this year either".

 In> If they won't make these spending tradeoffs and have not even
 In> a buffer sufficient to carry them through a month or two or
 In> three, I say screw them.

How about you adopting a person/family of your choice instead and
providing them with enough startup-money, so that they can at least
make an realistic effort to work towards a position of becoming
financially independent themselves? :)

 In> I won't support restrictions on what a company may do, when
 In> perfectly legal,

Neither do I.

 In> just because Joe Sixpack spent his paycheck on beer

or on his two daughters...

 In> Or because Rawandala Brown spent her money on crack

or supporting her sick mother instead.
Your repeating of government-propaganda about the "abuse of the
welfare-system" etc. doesn't really cut it as an argument in a
discussion about the realism of having total financial independence
and the freedom of choices, that comes with it.

 In> The Mormons teach self-reliance, and savings. So do other
 In> religions and belief systems. Many of them urge their
 In> followers to have money put aside for just these kinds of
 In> situations.

While I am not a Mormon or whatever, I do believe in self-reliance
myself. But to argue, that everybody already _is_ self-reliant to
the degree of being able to freely choose your employer at any time
is factually incorrect. And that was the beginning of this
discussion.

[Grasshopper stuff deleted]

 In> Don't you mean, in your world view:

 In> If success is outlawed, only failures will succeed.

You don't have to start twisting my signature-file and implying
things, that were never written by anybody but your projections. :)

 In> (I urge you to think about how your criticisms of the free
 In> market fit this aphorism.)

I suggest in return you reconsidering the myth, that a free market
means equal opportunities and thus quick self-reliance for
everybody.

Ciao

Harka

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