From: Jim Burnes <jvb@n-o-s-p-a-m.ssds.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 08:45:44 +0800
To: "Colin A. Reed" <aleph@cco.caltech.edu>
Subject: Re: Why Jodi Hoffman.....makes more sense than you think.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971105154710.00ce3410@pop-server.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.971105170326.18286f-100000@westsec.denver.ssds.com>
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On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Colin A. Reed wrote:
> At 09:23 AM 11/5/97 -0500, Jodi Hoffman wrote:
> >Interesting that you should mention this.  I, like many other Jews, have 
> >finally noticed something about Christians....
> >Seems they're actually _more_ Jewish than Jews.  At least they
> >(Christians) try to follow the Ten Commandments, which is a hell of a
> >lot more than I can say for most every Jew I've ever known.  Most
> >Jews, other than Orthodox, self-identify as atheists and don't even know
> >how to conduct a Passover service!  Unless you're Orthodox, being Jewish
> >is a joke.  IMHO, claiming to be a Reform or Conservative Jew is the
> >same as being "kind of" pregnant.
> >
> >(bracing for fresh onslaught of anti-Semetic spears to be chucked)
> 	Does that mean you expect others to say anti-semitic stuff or claim that
> you are being anti-semitic.  I would go with the latter.  Are you orthodox?
>  If not, what right do you have to bash conservative or reform jews?  If
> you are, please tell your friends in Israel that those of us with families
> who survived the death camps do not look kindly on their reinvention of
> fascism.  It is all well and good to love the group you come from, but
> especially if you are jewish, pay attention to history.  Have we not been
> persecuted throughout history, how dare we, now that we have some measure
> of power, go on to persecue others?  Think before you write please.
> 	On your other point, christians routinely break the _important_
> commandments.  (the first two)  Go to any church and you will see no end to
> the idols they set up to their various saints, gods, etc.  And they pray to
> whatever saint they want, or mary, or jesus (a mere messenger, even if the
> son of god, he ain't god) or whoever they feel like.  Whatever happenned to
> 'Thou shalt have no gods before me!'  
> 

Well, Colin.  The idols you spoke of are simply transmogrified versions
of Adonis and Demeter from Roman paganism.  (I assume youre referring to
the Roman Catholic Church).

Having been a Roman Catholic and for some twenty years been an ex-catholic
I've spent years research the apparent transition from a Roman Senate/
Emperor dominated world to a Roman PaganJudeoChristian dominated world.
(at least until the reformation took hold).

Then England dominated the seas which was just an extension of the
Roman power center.

To some degree that is why the founding fathers were so adamant about
separation of church and state.  The last thing they wanted was another
theocracy to graft itself onto their new creation.

Of course, given the vagaries of entropy, the state eventually became
their religion.

Be careful what you wish for.  You may get it.

jim burnes