From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 01:20:31 +0800
To: "Brian B. Riley" <cypherpunks@Algebra.COM>
Subject: Re: Clinton's Bigger Gun Ban
In-Reply-To: <199711021554.KAA07184@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: <v03102800b0825444fa4b@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:54 AM -0700 11/2/97, Brian B. Riley wrote:

>On 10/29/97 8:08 PM, Tim May (tcmay@got.net)  passed this wisdom:
>
>>The Klinton Klan has already effectively banned imported SKS ammo
>>(7.62x29, as I recall, given that I don't have any rifles
>>chambering this popular round).
>> ---
>>Before you rush to correct me, I _meant_ to write "7.62x39" of
>>course.
>>
>>(A round used by the Chinese, Soviet, and East Bloc nations, and
>>roughly equivalent to the American M-16 round, known either as the
>>.223 or 5.56mm. The NATO "7.62" is in a longer case length.
>>7.62x54, as I recall. Known in America as .308.
>
> If I remember right they were able to do this because the only ammo
>available for 7.62x39  is from the Chinese and uses steel core
>projectiles not lead. Then when Olympic Arms came out with the cutdown
>weapon chambered for 7.62x39 it was able to be banned uder a
>regualtion banning "armor piercing ammo that could be used in a
>handgun."

Vinnie M. sent me a note also saying this. I guess the Eastern European
stuff is available--for now.

Some in the gun community are vilifying Olyarms for introducing this OA-93
"assault pistol" (the name often applied to politically incorrect pistols
like this). As if Olyarms should have been cowed into not introducing a
product out of fear that Clinton would abuse his authority to ban Chinese
ammo.

>   One thing though,  7.62x39 really could not be compared to the 5.56
>NATO, its really more potent out to 2-300 meters; it is still a .30
>cal vs 5.56 NATOs .223,  but its far less potent than 7.62 NATO
>(7.62x54). The 7.62x39 was the standard caliber of ComBloc weapons for
>several decades, most specifically the AK-47, AKM-44 (sniper weapon),
>and SKS carbine. I think the Dragunov sniper system used a more potent
>cartridge.

I've never owned anything in 7.62x39. I hear the SKS rifles are pretty good
for $150, or whatever, and a lot of people have bought them. To me they
look a little crude. And since I can afford things out of the AR-15 line....

(Debate rages in rec.guns and elsewhere about the relative merits of the
cartridges. I certainly see more variants of the AR-15 here in America,
more use by tactical and law enforcement teams, and more accessories. But
maybe I'm not looking in the right places.)

One of the more interesting images I ever saw was a photo in one of the gun
mags of a friendly meeting in the U.S. between Eugene Stoner, principal
designer of the AR-15 (the M-16 in its military version) and Mikhail
Kalashnikov, whose name needs no further explanation.

I suppose tree-hugging peaceniks would be aghast at a meeting between these
two merchants of death. I, being an antigovernment type, was nevertheless
impressed.

--Tim May


The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
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