From: "Attila T. Hun" <attila@hun.org>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 17:39:01 +0800
To: Matrix Encryption <cypherpunks@cyberpass.net>
Subject: MEGAVAPOUR ENCRYPTION [was CHALLENGE to Meganet VME...]
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971108112126.006dab28@ibcnet.com>
Message-ID: <19971114.035251.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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on or about 971108:1121, in <3.0.32.19971108112126.006dab28@ibcnet.com>, 
    Matrix Encryption <matrix@meganet.com> was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

>Dear Atilla,
>
    normally I would not waste my time replying to an 
    illiterate, ignorant flim-flam artist with a forced 
    error [sic] of superiority to hide his/her paranoid 
    insecurity.

    first: I am not, and have never been, a coward hiding 
    behind a nym. I have been known by "Attila T. Hun" for
    more years than you have probably been alive. thus, the
    interNIC record:

    20:56:01 attila 501-> whois hun.org

        Attila T. Hun (HUN5-DOM)
        31 N. 700 E. Suite 134
        St. George, UT 84770-3208
        US

        Domain Name: HUN.ORG
        ...
        Record last updated on 31-Jul-97.

    AND

    Welcome to Primenet, Attila T. Hun
    Your last login was Thu Nov 13 22:19:11 PST 1997 
    USER     TTY FROM              LOGIN@  IDLE WHAT
    attila   p3  attila.infowest.  7:02AM     0 w attila
    processing mail folders 
                msgs   lines   chars message group
                  21    2157   98506 .incoming_mail
    
    00:02:25 attila 501-> finger attila@primenet.com

        [primenet.com]
        Login: attila                           Name: Attila T. Hun
        Directory: /user/a/attila               Shell: /bin/bash
        Mailbox last read:    Fri Nov 14 00:02 (MST)
        Plan:
        
            ENCODE ALL MESSAGES WITH 2048 BIT SIGNAL KEY: 2048/463141C9
        
    now, all that being said...  it has been asked...  
    
    "attila, who the fuck are you?" 
    
        "just nobody, I guess;
        
        "well, let's see...
        
        "I have a Piled higher and Deeper in Information Techniques 
            from Zuerich (undergrad at Harvard in dual honors
            physical chemistry);
        
        "I have been around since before the dawn of arpanet, probably
            even longer than TCMay; in fact, I was born before Franklin
            D. Roosevelt dusted off Wendell L. Willkie;
        
        "I've never held a job;
        
        "but, I have personally coded more than a few 250,000+ line
            packages, which made me quite comfortable at one time, even
            if more than one did go down the black hole (along with
            countless other projects like the bit-slice hardware and
            firmware to replace B3500s in missile silos);
                 
        "I have been the hatchet man in a few bleeding tech 
            recoveries;
        
        "I have been detained for crypto offenses by the Feds;
        
        "I have been detained for 'treasonable' technology export; and,
            I have been charged;
        
        "a long time ago, in a land far, far away, there was more than
            one tour in "deep-deep black" special operations; the
            battalion commanding officer for the 'Let's do some serious
            killing...' permanently vacant eyes, misfits;
        
        "a combat chopper pilot; an instrument rated multi-engine pilot;
            a rider of a 102 cu.  in.  115+ mph qtr. miler hawg on the
            street; "plus a few other reasons to guarantee an
            autobiography to be found on the fiction shelf.
        
        "if you really want to know...  just play Hotel California,
            but I live in the high desert country of Utah with a 
            bunch of gun nuts (only state in the Union where opening
            day of the hunting season is a state holiday).
        
        "So, who the 'fuck' am I?  Just another aging 300 lb gorilla,
        
        "Oh, yeah, I forgot, I hold a license to practice before the
            court in a couple European countries...
        
        "So, who am I, really?
        
        "Nobody, I guess, just attila!
        
        "you probably will not be last, you may not be next, 
            but you are certainly too late to have been first."
        
                --attila
         
>Youe letter show us that you might not be aware of all the facts
>surrounding VME.

    now, let's get several important points straight out front:

    1.  matriculate in a liberal arts program for English grammar 
        and composition; your writing is unintelligible, often 
        contradictory  --no class.

    2.  until you publish the algorithm[s] and the implementation
        code, you do not have a product, you have "vapourware" in
        the encryption business --your trust model reputation
        capital is zero.

    3.  anybody can propose a specification; but over the last
        25 years less than a handful of the hundreds proposed, 
        have been bullet proof --so far; they can still fail.

    4.  a 2^20 keylength is an absurd dimension, more than
        120Kbytes; the efficiency for an average 2K memo is
        less than 2%. just handling the data stream is a load
        on both the processor[s] and the communication link[s].

    if you are still with me...

    1.  I do not believe your claim that you have placed your
        encryption with 250 of the top software companies;
        there are not 250 software companies in the world who 
        could afford your outrageous $1 million base licensing
        be --particularly for what appears to be vapourware.
        Nobody in this business places that level of financial
        commitment on the PASS line in las vegas.  and to pay 
        this fee annually? well, dreams are still permissable;
        but outside of that forum, your hypothesis is a dream.

            corollary: the way to make money is to sell millions
            of licenses at $10, not get down on your knees and
            pray that someone will lay $1 million on you for 
            something which has not been proven in the trenches.

    2.  I do not believe you _ever_ had the $1 million prize 
        money for your alleged contest.

    3.  I do not believe you even have a working model or beta
        release of the software.

    4.  I do not believe you are doing anything other than 
        putting us all on.

    now, if we can get past the above problems for YOU to solve,
    and/or demonstrate the efficacy thereof, to US, the final
    "problem" in your demonstrated inability to communicate can
    be addressed:

    I did NOT ask to participate in your EXPIRED CHALLENGE; that 
    was obviously a farcical expression of egotistical
    tomfoolery or shenanigans --maybe even hooliganism. that
    not withstanding, you never had the money to pay a claim; 
    your ego told you there would never be a claim.

    I DID CHALLENGE YOU to publish your algorithms, source code, 
    and implementations to the group for evaluation. 

        if your hypothesis survives a rigorous exercise and 
        proof of its claims, you will be a hero.

        if your hypothesis, which from this perceptive point
        appears to be vapourware, goes down in flames, you 
        will be no worse a fool than any of the last crop of 
        bulletproof pretenders.

    and that, my friend is living in the real world, not even
    the fast lane.

    the rest of your letter is hokey. ...it's your move.

        attila out...

    ------------ balance of your original drivel follows -----------

>Well, lets start:

>1) The is no "secret" behind the VME flowchart - we have filed with the US
>patent office, and when it's approved, anybody in the world can see the
>flowcharts and diagrams.

>2) We have given a select 250 major software corporations ALL of the
>flowcharts, diagrams and even a WORKING COPY of the VME application.

>3) Why don't we do the same with the general public ? a copule of reasons:

>	a) Due to VME key size (1 million bits) we are forbidden by the US export laws
>to put
>	   it on the Internet, which is a world wide platform (see Paul Zimerman & PGP
>case).
>	b) For the above reasons we can not put any of the flowcharts, diagrams or a
>demo of
>	   of the application without violating the law and getting Big Bro real
>upset.
>	c) VME is currently targeted at the large corporations and a site licensing
>fee is
>	   currently a $1,000,000 annualy, so we have no "General Use" version for
>public use.

>But, as I mentioned before, the top 250 software corporations DO HAVE the
>flowcharts, diagrams and a working copy of VME. Therefore, we do have a team of
>the leading cryptographers working on VME to credit or discredit our claims,
>and that was the challenge all about to begin with.

>Thank you for your interest in VME.

>Saul Backal,
>Project Manager.

p.s. - I've noticed too late of the title to your email - just for your
knowledge, the million dollars challenge have ended May 15,1997 and the
current challenge bear no monetary prize.

Take Care,

Saul.


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