From: nobody@neva.org (Neva Remailer)
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 05:35:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Overcoming War by Making Friends
Message-ID: <199711182118.PAA27868@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Anonymous <nobody@replay.com> wrote:
>Monty Cantsin writes:
>
>> What the Net and cypherpunkly tools create is a world in which there
>> are not easily identified disjoint sets because any particular net of
>> relationships that a person has tends to overlap the relationship nets
>> of other people who have a dissimilar set of relationships.
>> 
>> This is a more reliable and robust world to live in because there is a
>> great deal of redundancy.  That is, the elites of two countries cannot
>> conspire to use their respective sets of serfs as cannon fodder in
>> some ill advised adventure.  It's hard to get excited about a war run
>> by people who are not your friends against people who happen to live
>> in another part of the world but with whom you have a relationship.
>
>Good point, but it's important to realize that these new attitudes
>are only available to people who have access to the tools.  Much of
>the world is still trapped in a dark age, without access to the light
>brought by tools for communication.  Powerful interests seek to keep
>them that way.  Until that changes, the old mindset of
>us-against-them will continue to be a threat to peace.

True.  However, to the extent that we and our friends do not
participate, there will be that much less war.  Even if we fail to end
all wars, even the prevention of a single war (or the shortening of
one war!) will be worth the effort.  "War is not healthy for children
and other living things."

I've mentioned the newspaper "The Aurora" which was active during the
Adams administration.  A strong argument can be made that this one
newspaper prevented a war with France and the introduction of Monarchy
into the United States.  Considering the relatively small number of
people involved with this list, the prevention of one war would be a
fantastic achievement.

Consider the benefit that the prevention of World War I would have
brought the world.  Millions of people would not have died before
their time.  Millions of other people would not have lead lives after
the war of dejection and sorrow either due to their own direct
involvement in the war or that of their friends and relatives.

Communism would probably not have arisen sparing the lives of
millions.

World War II would probably not have occurred again sparing the lives
of millions.

The development of germ warfare, chemical warfare, and nuclear warfare
would have proceeded far more slowly.

We would be living in a far wealthier and more peaceful world.

>We as cypherpunks must be leaders in encouraging wider access to
>communications and the tools which manage information.  It's not
>right to target our message narrowly to the militias and racists who
>gravitate towards anti-government causes.  We must be inclusive,
>offering encouragement to other cultures, other races, other
>countries.  Anti-Japanese, anti-Jewish, anti-Black, anti-Arab
>sentiments will only hinder our success, and likewise with our
>emphasis on violence, killing, and death as solutions to problems.

Here I am afraid we disagree.  The world has too many damned leaders!

I also believe that it is a better practice to explore ideas that are
interesting and discuss them honestly rather than to attempt to
sweeten the ideas for consumption by large numbers of people.  The people
who are receptive to our ideas will understand.  Those who are not
will become slaves.

As for being inclusive to foreigners, it's a pretty inclusive list.
After all, anybody in the world who can operate majordomo is allowed
to participate!  You can't do much better than that.

It's my guess that most current readers of the list don't especially
care where people come from or even their exact ideological alignment,
so long as they have interesting things to say.

Finally, your perception that there is an "emphasis on violence,
killing, and death" is not accurate.  What is the cypherpunk body
count?  Last I checked it was zero.  Out of the thousands of people
who have been on the list, can you think of a single act of violence
perpetrated by a list member?  The only ones I know about happened in
wars sponsored by the U.S. government before the list was even formed.

>The fact that other cultures are often repressive in their own right
>is no excuse.  The tools we offer will help them become more
>open-minded and inclusive.  But we must set an example ourselves.  It
>is a tragedy that the message of hate is being propagated within a
>technological movement which should foster openness and
>enlightenment.  We can do better than this.

Maybe it would be best if you set an example in setting an example
for the rest of us to follow.  ;-)

My sense of your article, feel free to correct me if I am wrong, is
that you see the Cypherpunks as a more or less cohesive group with a
coherent agenda and a face to present to the outside world.

I prefer to look at it as a mailing list to which anybody in the world
may subscribe.  I am certainly not responsible for other people's work
on it, for better or for worse.

And, I believe we will get more done if I, for one example, think for
myself about the most useful thing my time could be spent doing.

If 100 cypherpunks choose one leader and follow his instructions will
we really accomplish more than if 100 cypherpunks think imaginatively
and creatively about what they themselves will do?  I doubt it.

Besides which, leaders are choke points.

Monty Cantsin
Editor in Chief
Smile Magazine
http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html
http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm

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