From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:08:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Minsky skeptical of privacy
Message-ID: <199711302158.WAA03654@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bob Hettinga wrote that Marvin Minsky wrote:
>>There's always a plausible reason that can be used to override
>>whatever privacy policies and safeguards are designed into such a
>>system.
>
>If the reasons really are plausible, then those overrides should be
>added to the system design.

There is a curious belief implicit in this statement.  Nobody wants a
backdoor in their own privacy.  This means that the overrides will
have to be mandated by law.

Thus, what Minsky is arguing against is the right of people to protect
their own privacy.

>Perhaps, instead, we should try to design tracking systems that
>include public review mechanisms -- so that whenever anyone (e.g.,
>your employer) accesses your record against the privacy policy,
>they'll be subject to legal sanctions and damages.

It is possible that Minsky is unaware of how ineffective these sorts
of laws are.  Today we have many laws regarding financial secrecy and
the like.  However, there are people who are able to get this sort of
information fairly routinely.  These people tend not to be poor.  They
tend to be close to employers.  The tend not to advertise what they
do.

Not to mention the fact that legal systems and governments can flip
into bad modes where they exploit the authority with which they have
been entrusted.  It is somewhat naive to claim that any government is
not prone to this and that it hasn't happened repeatedly throughout
all of human history.

>Ed Fredkin once asked a number of people how they would feel about a
>new device with which you could select almost anyone in the world,
>and make the device produce a loud noise near them.  They all
>objected angrily.  Then Ed said, "It already exists.  It's called the
>telephone."

This is a cute line and I'm sure it was a hit with the crowd, but
telephones are a major problem.  We can tell how much illegal
wiretapping is going on by the which authorities by how loudly they
scream when people - people who have not been tried or convicted of
any crime! - start encrypting their conversations.

Incidentally, does anybody know what percentage of the research
funding Marvin Minsky has used in his career was directly or
indirectly related to the defense establishment?

The interesting thing about the privacy "debate" is that there is an
exceptionally high correlation between opposition to privacy and the
consumption of public money.

Monty Cantsin
Editor in Chief
Smile Magazine
http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html
http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm

Subject: Minsky skeptical of privacy
To: cypherpunks@algebra.com
16A5942B6EED349ECF4594C784DFD177 [Cantsin Protocol No. 1]
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