From: "Brian B. Riley" <brianbr@together.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 03:41:39 +0800
To: "Tim May" <cypherpunks@Algebra.COM>
Subject: Re: Clinton's Bigger Gun Ban
Message-ID: <199711021935.OAA25880@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 11/2/97 11:14 AM, Tim May (tcmay@got.net)  passed this wisdom:

 [snip]

>Some in the gun community are vilifying Olyarms for introducing this OA-93
>"assault pistol" (the name often applied to politically incorrect pistols
>like this). As if Olyarms should have been cowed into not introducing a
>product out of fear that Clinton would abuse his authority to ban Chinese
>ammo.

  I would not villify them, but I would wonder if they considered that 
aspect when they decided to market the weapon.

>>   One thing though,  7.62x39 really could not be compared to the 5.56
>>NATO, its really more potent out to 2-300 meters; it is still a .30
>>cal vs 5.56 NATOs .223,  but its far less potent than 7.62 NATO
>>(7.62x54). The 7.62x39 was the standard caliber of ComBloc weapons for
>>several decades, most specifically the AK-47, AKM-44 (sniper weapon),
>>and SKS carbine. I think the Dragunov sniper system used a more potent
>>cartridge.
>
>I've never owned anything in 7.62x39. I hear the SKS rifles are pretty good
>for $150, or whatever, and a lot of people have bought them. To me they
>look a little crude. And since I can afford things out of the AR-15 line....

 Having faced down the SKS carbine in Nam on a couple of occasions, I can 
say its a rugged built and seemingly idiot proof weapon of reasonable 
accuracy out to 2-300 meters tops. Many versions come equipped with a 
three-fluted bayonette thats considerably longer than what we used and 
its *most* impressive when some guy comes out of the brush with one in 
your direction ... I got a chance to examine the blade from a few inches 
when I deflected his thrust and delivered a blow of my own ... I would 
just a soon have remained in blissful ignorance of the details ... <sigh>

>(Debate rages in rec.guns and elsewhere about the relative merits of the
>cartridges. I certainly see more variants of the AR-15 here in America,
>more use by tactical and law enforcement teams, and more accessories. But
>maybe I'm not looking in the right places.)

   The 7.62x39 really isn't much of a cartridge, its not potent enough to 
justify its size, 7.62x54 is more potent and its not small enough to 
capitalize on its wimpiness, 5.56 NATO delivers as much oomph in much 
less size. 

  It is relatively simple to appreciate the size difference. When the 
standard issue service rifle was the M-14 (7.62x54 NATA) the standard 
load for a soldier was six(6) magazines of twenty plus the seventh in the 
rifle. When the M-16 became the standard service rifle, the same ammo 
load weight permitted twenty (20) magazines of twenty plus a twenty-first 
in the rifle.
140 rounds versus 420 rounds - biiigggg difference

>One of the more interesting images I ever saw was a photo in one of the gun
>mags of a friendly meeting in the U.S. between Eugene Stoner, principal
>designer of the AR-15 (the M-16 in its military version) and Mikhail
>Kalashnikov, whose name needs no further explanation.
>
>I suppose tree-hugging peaceniks would be aghast at a meeting between these
>two merchants of death. I, being an antigovernment type, was nevertheless
>impressed.

 I too was quite impressed with that meeting, but not surprising. I 
brought a prisoner in once, an NVA regular, a major, and spent several 
days in the field with him before we could get lifted out. He spoke 
excellant English and wonderful education and a wry wit. I found I 
related better to him than I did to most of the upper ranks in the 1st 
MarDiv in DaNang ... almost had half a mind to say 'screw the suits' and 
let him go. Of course therein lies the problem of 'the suits' ... so long 
as they can get us to think of the enemy as 'gooks' or 'ragheads' or 
'krauts' they can con us into killing them ... but as soon as you realize 
they have wives and kids and jobs and bills and neighbors and aunts and 
uncles and nephews, in short, are just like use save for the cut of their 
uniform ... its gets a lot harder to see just why you should kill them 
(unless of course they are pointing a gun at you!)



Brian B. Riley --> http://www.macconnect.com/~brianbr
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