From: bureau42 Anonymous Remailer <nobody@bureau42.ml.org>
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 10:46:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Br'er Tim and the Bug Hole
Message-ID: </ExNHxdX+kw2EXoXkBNHZw==@bureau42.ml.org>
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On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 at 11:27:12 -0500 Bob Hettinga had an epileptic
fit induced by excessive pressure in his swollen head and vomited
forth:

> Tim can make it as "repeatedly clear" as he wants after 
> the fact. However, he has, on several occasions, made 
> threats against people with more guns than he has, and, 
> sooner or later, they're gonna

Aw, bullshit, Bob! You were wrong when you started this fuckfest
and you're digging yourself deeper and deeper with every post.
There was a time when I thought you had a brain and a modicum of
common sense, but you've thoroughly disabused me of that fantasy.
I once visited your website and thought, "This guy is cool!"
Geez, I'm embarrassed to admit that now.

You've taken Tim's comments out of context and done yeoman work
for the enemy. If (or when) they ever find an excuse to bother
him, they won't be showing _his_ posts to the jury -- they'll
be showing _yours_, you clueless fuckwit. 

This is the age of "social convictions," in case you haven't 
noticed because you've been living in an e-cave. They don't 
prove cases anymore; they show that you're a "bad actor." 
It's all done with PR, whether totally in the press or partly 
in a courtroom. The first piece of paper the feds send out 
when they attack someone is a press release. The victim often 
first learns he's in trouble when the reporters call.

> ...lucidity, but who has gotten increasingly radicalized 
> and militant at exactly the same time the world is figuring 
> out that his earlier...

Maybe you're too young, child. The world is not figuring things
out fast enough or on a large enough scale to offset the
accelerating advance of the state. Tim has been around long
enough to have figured out that the statists have pissed away
his entire lifetime making him wait for things to get "figured
out." You have no respect for your elders, who have gotten 
bored over more things than you have yet learned. You should 
be spanked and made to sit in the corner until you can behave.

> It's almost as if Tim keeps trying to top himself, with 
> some newer and more grandiose claim about the impending 
> collapse of the world as we know it. It just ain't so. 
> The world don't work that way.

Tell that to the Athenians and hundreds if not thousands of 
groups since who have been surprised when their worlds 
collapsed. Tell that to the Austrians and Germans of the
1920's. Tell that to the piles of bones in Cambodia. You
suffer from the subjectivity of youth. You think that the
universe revolves around your time and space and that those
are unique in human experience. You're wrong. The times into
which we are headed have every promise of being the very most
"interesting" in human history. I for one won't feel a bit
compensated by your future whines that you "wuz wrong!"

If you had two brain cells to rub together you would have
taken your lumps in Tim's first brushoff and shut up. He's
got a right to his position and you haven't got shit. What
you will have is a place in someone's black book if it turns
out that your characterizations of Tim's posts ever turn out
to be fuel for the enemy's meatgrinder. Ignorance, even 
stupidity, are pardonable if not too tightly connected to
the motor mouth. You should consider that the damage you may
do could far exceed the value of whatever pride it is that
impels you to continue to articulate the government's ideal
(and fatuous) arguments in this matter.

> And, Monty, here's another fact: the world isn't going to 
> end on Thanksgiving Day, much less at the beginning of the 
> millennium.

Only a complete fool would be that sure.

> Armed storm troopers are probably *not* going to decend 
> on the denizens of this list and haul them off to newly 
> built gulags in the Rockies somewhere, or whatever the 
> current fantasy of the moment is.

Really, if you just stopped and thought about it a moment,
there are only a very few regular posters to the list. All
of them could be hauled off without making a ripple. We are 
meanwhile playing war footsie with Iraq after having spent
the better part of five years doing Clinton's best to 
disable, demoralize, cripple, and mismanage the military.
We're a few press conferences away from being in way over
our heads with a left-wing android in charge. Is this your
picture of stable times and a secure Constitution? Do you
seriously doubt that there are people in the Administration,
at least in the bureaucracy, who wouldn't like to be able to
make a few gratuitous PR linkages in a national emergency 
and have an excuse to get rid of the C-P annoyance once and 
for all? Did you miss entirely the personal destruction
wreaked on Jim Bell _without_ a national emergency? Would you
be utterly shocked to learn some day soon that you, too, have
ordered odd chemicals from someplace or other over the last
few years? Hey! It could _happen_!

> However, to say that they're coming to take us all away 
> on Thanksgiving, or anytime soon, is more than a little 
> paranoid, and,

No, Grasshopper, it is just a _little_ paranoid to suggest
that it might be a possibility. You're putting words in 
Tim's mouth again. You can probably assume that if Tim
were really convinced that that were going to happen, they
would find only an inflatable Tim sitting in front of a
'puter relaying email through an indirect dial link. Or
something like that. He's just concerned. I'm concerned. 
Anyone with a brain above room temperature is concerned.
Ugly things are in the wind.

> to attempt to force a confrontation in hopes of 
> preciptating a revolution, or even gratuitous publicity 

Why, Grasshopper! He's done no such thing and you well know it.
You are the one making such characterizations (as if any of
us needed that). Had I the time and the interest, I would
check what archives there are to see if you did the same
favor for Jim Bell.  Fuckwit!

Well, there's more, but your time's up. See you in the camps.

We Jurgar Din