From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 08:47:32 +0800
To: "Brian B. Riley" <cypherpunks@Algebra.COM>
Subject: Re: A Medal -- Or A Prison Cell?
In-Reply-To: <199712062000.PAA21076@mx01.together.net>
Message-ID: <v03102806b0af9068dd49@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:00 PM -0700 12/6/97, Brian B. Riley wrote:

>   Larry Gates, a 54-year-old ex-Marine, operates a convenience store in
>   rural Iconium, Missouri. He's also a volunteer fireman. Last Christmas
>   Eve he was listening to a licensed fire department radio when he heard
>   a report that police were chasing two suspected murderers. Police had
>   lost track of the suspects. From his knowledge of the area, Gates was
>   aware that the car would pass directly in front of his store.

"Suspected murderers," not "convicted murderers." And the cops could have
been chasing any number of persons.

(I'm not intending to sound like a simp-wimp apologist for criminals, but
the language of this article, including "suspected murderers," "suddenly
accelerated," "abusing drugs for days," "confessed to two homicides," and
"planned to commit suicide" all smack of sensationalism.

And did the Gates family know any of this stuff about "abusing drugs" and
"planned to commit suicide"? Of course not.

So, what if the folks in the car were tax protestors, whom the police radio
misidentified as suspected murderers? Or other kinds of suspects? What if
the passenger was a hostage? What if she had been killed by the shotgun
blast?

(The shooter presumably aimed to kill, after all. As we all know, shotgun
pellets don't disable engines very well.)

Just as we don't want cops shooting at "fleeing cars"--unless trained
personnel have concluded that a threat exists or that no other means of
stopping the car is feasible, so, too, we don't want suburban cowboys
deciding to shoot at cars that are no immediate danger to them.

(The "Instead, the car suddenly accelerated directly at Carey" sounds fishy
to me, as few drivers would ram a car if they could see a way around the
roadblock, which the driver apparently did.)

I have no problem with anyone defending themselves or their family, or even
their direct neighbors, with heavy firepower. But I don't want "volunteers"
shooting at me, for example, if the local Gestapo happens to be chasing me.

>From what I've read here, the prosecution is warranted.

--Tim May


>   Gates grabbed a shotgun and sidearm, and along with his three adult
>   sons pulled two vehicles into the intersection, blocking it. Both
>   vehicles had fire emergency lights flashing.
>
>   A few seconds later the suspects' car approached the roadblock. Gates'
>   son Carey motioned for the car to stop. Instead, the car suddenly
>   accelerated directly at Carey. Gates fired his shotgun once at the
>   car. The car swerved away from his sons, went around the roadblock,
>   and continued down the road.
>
>Two of Gates' sons followed the car at a moderate pace. The car was
>   driving erratically. Soon it slowed enough for the passenger, a woman,
>   to leap out. Gates' sons stopped. The woman suspect was slightly
>   wounded from Gates' shotgun. One of Gates's sons, an Emergency Medical
>   Technician, administered first aid. The other son resumed following
>   the car. When he came across the abandoned car, he called police.
>   Shortly the other suspect was arrested.
>
>   The two suspects, who had been abusing drugs for days, confessed to
>   two homicides. The woman said the driver had planned to commit suicide
>   by crashing the car.
>
>   Did the Gates family get medals? No. The St. Clair, Missouri
>   prosecutor has charged Larry Gates with "unlawful use of a weapon," a
>   felony offense. He was released from jail on $5,000 bond. If convicted
>   he faces up to five years' imprisonment and the permanent loss of his
>   Second Amendment rights.
>
>Gates has turned down offers to plea bargain his charges down to a
>   misdemeanor. He goes to trial December 10. Gun Owners of America has
>   established a legal defense fund for Larry Gates. For info call
>   703-321-8585.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>The courts have found that citizens are not legally entitled to police
>protection, yet citizens who defend themselves and their communities are
>routinely prosecuted as if THEY are the criminals. We are forced to pay
>taxes to support a police force that is not required to defend us and is
>instead used to punish us for defending ourselves. I don't get it.
>
>James A Chappelow
>
>	"History shows that all conquerors who have allowed the
>	subject races to carry arms have prepared their own
>	downfall by so doing."
>				Adolf Hitler
>
>
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>
>----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------
>
>Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
>  For PGP Keys  <mailto:brianbr@together.net?subject=Get%20PGP%20Key>
>
>  "Never ask what sort of computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user,
>   he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him?" - Tom Clancy


The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."