From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:10:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Freemen and Serfs
In-Reply-To: <199712010155.CAA05612@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <v03102809b0a7c86dc8d5@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:55 PM -0700 11/30/97, Anonymous wrote:
>This model of "sheeple" doomed to slavery while cypherpunks comfortably
>live independent of the state is even less plausible than the original
>idea of crypto anarchy.  It appeals to our elitist instincts and makes
>us feel comfortably superior, but it has little connection to reality.
>
>This idea overlooks the "fax effect", where the value of a technology
>rises in proportion to the number of people who use it.  Cypherpunks will
>have to set up a virtual Galt's Gulch, trading only with themselves,
>and unlike in Rand's fantasy the limitations of such an economy will
>soon be apparent.  Early cypherpunk experiments like "Magic Money"
>showed how pointless a virtual cypherpunk bank would be.

Nope. I haven't claimed anything about an elite group trading amongst
themselves.

Rather, those who use the technology will make more money, and save more of
it, and will then be able to hire out those who failed to, and to buy stuff
made by them.

We've been seeing this for a long time. Not a new concept. For example,
those of us who used our skills and investment inclinations to make a lot
of money are not condemned to "trading only with ourselves." We routinely
trade with others.

We just have a lot more money. (And this applies to the many list members
now working in high tech, obviously.)

Strong crypto will just heighten this effect still further.

>Cypherpunk technologies create a protected boundary within which
>transactions can be conducted free of third party surveillance and
>tampering.  Only by extending this secure boundary to include the
>masses will there be enough value generated within the secure region
>to be worthwhile.  Cypherpunks who can only trade and work for each
>other will not be able to generate sufficient economic growth to survive.

See above. Whomever you are, you have a poor understanding of economics.


>In an increasingly interdependent world economy, the only hope
>for cypherpunk technologies to succeed is to extend them as far as
>possible throughout society.  This includes reaching out to foreigners
>and minorities, to the dismay of some cypherpunks.  We must oppose the

"Foreigners"? Ted Turner would have you fired for your xenophobia.

As for "reaching out to minorities," I am a minority member myself. In
fact, my ancestors came from Africa.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."