From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:40:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Freemen and Serfs
Message-ID: <199712030131.CAA08208@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous <nobody@REPLAY.COM> wrote:
>This model of "sheeple" doomed to slavery while cypherpunks
>comfortably live independent of the state is even less plausible than
>the original idea of crypto anarchy.  It appeals to our elitist
>instincts and makes us feel comfortably superior, but it has little
>connection to reality.

If elitism had been intended, the subject would have been "Lords and
Serfs".  Freemen are more like people with some rights, some property,
and some skills, but who are not serfs.

>This idea overlooks the "fax effect", where the value of a technology
>rises in proportion to the number of people who use it.  Cypherpunks
>will have to set up a virtual Galt's Gulch, trading only with
>themselves, and unlike in Rand's fantasy the limitations of such an
>economy will soon be apparent.  Early cypherpunk experiments like
>"Magic Money" showed how pointless a virtual cypherpunk bank would
>be.

Cypherpunks should be able to provide services which slavers and
others want.  This could be code.  It could be expertise.  It could be
connections.  Whatever.  The slavers have things to offer cypherpunks,
whether it's food, construction work, hardware, etc.

Whatever the medium used to trade these services, there is no reason
why the slavers would forego the services they may want.  Assuming
that the Freemen aren't agitating on behalf of the slaves, that is.

We don't need all the slavers to deal, nor do all cypherpunks have to
deal with all slavers.  Just some members of both groups need to get
together and trade.

>In an increasingly interdependent world economy, the only hope for
>cypherpunk technologies to succeed is to extend them as far as
>possible throughout society.

Standard doctrine, but I no longer believe it is sound.  We've been at
it for years now.  Are the masses using crypto?  I didn't think so.
It's a waste of time to sell to people who think they "have nothing to
hide".  Even if they were using crypto, they would accept snoopware if
it were accompanied with the right media programming.

Which means that instead of proselytizing, it's probably better to
develop systems which we can use which are expensive-to-impossible to
thwart even in hostile environments.

There's no need to turn people away, of course, but begging people to
help themselves is a poor investment.

Monty Cantsin
Editor in Chief
Smile Magazine
http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html
http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm

Subject: Re: Freemen and Serfs
To: cypherpunks@algebra.com
25BA1A9F5B9010DD8C752EDE887E9AF3 [Cantsin Protocol No. 2]
94C43229A76383D818D39952F7A41ACA0394C6FE
04480B5C1D4BAC4412B56B45C914FC0729EACD0D
-9E1 9E1
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