From: Remo Pini <rp@rpini.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 06:56:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Location Escrow anyone ?
In-Reply-To: <c=AU%a=TELEMEMO_%p=TAFENSW%l=ISF10-980102034537Z-4222@ixf2m1.isd.tafensw.edu.au>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980102234524.00977740@linux>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 22:24 02.01.98 +0100, you wrote:
>
>Pearson Shane wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> >> "Swisscom has stored data on the movements of more than a million mobile
>> >> phone users. It can call up the location of all its mobile
subscribers down
>> >> to a few hundred meters and going back at least half a year," the paper
>> >> reported.
>> >
>> >They probably say a few hundred meters so the people don't feel
>> >their privacy is too ridiculously invaded / soften the blow.
>> >
>> >If this is a GSM network then I think they can probably pinpoint
>> >your location down to 2 possible locations within a few meters
>> >due to the digital timing involved with the very precise spread
>> >spectrum radio. Or maybe your actual location within a meter or 2.
>
>it is a GSM network, however, I doubt that they try to know more than
>just the cell you're in... but you never know

They can't really (the cell relay equipment is not up to the task).

>> >Imagine Mr.Drug Dealer turns up to court and watches as the jury is
>> >presented with a floorplan on screen and an animated pinpoint of his
>> >phones position while a recording of his conversation is played in sync?
>
>yes... except that everybody but Mr.Drug Dealer use these mobile
>phones (marketed under the name "Natel-D"). In switzerland, you can
>buy GSM phones that works with prepaid cards. No trace, no name. The
>location can still be pinpointed, but nobody know who's owning the
>phone. This is called "Natel Easy" (what a name). It cost much more,
>but depending on the business you're conducting, it's not a problem...
>
>To conclude: everybody is watched, except Mr.DD...
>
>> >The world just about, has no idea!
>> >To say big brother is watching is a gross understatement.      :)
>
>this is the problem in switzerland. When I first heard about this
>story (and believe me, it's not the only one of that kind... it's
>not even the worse), I tried to ask people around me to see what
>they think about this, and I was amazed by their reaction. "There
>is no problem, I'm not doing anything wrong." The media are
>beginning to relate this kind of facts, but the people are still
>incredibly naive.

You should have asked me instead :), I'm a bit more paranoid than most.
(Yes, I most certainly don't have a Cumulus card and I have a Natel D-Easy
for 
fun.)

>One more thing we can say about this story: Switzerland's telecom
>market is now free (since 1.1.98), and this story may give some
>people (altough I'm not sure...) a reason to change their telco
>(when possible).

Until somewhen in 1999 you can only do international calls through alternate
carriers (only Swisscom has access to the home so far, unless these cable
operators
really get serious, which they won't, because Swisscom owns more then 30%
of their
stock) and you have to prepend a 5 digit number to do a call until autumn
(I don't think
people without a pbx that can be programmed to automatically do that will
switch carriers).

>Another fact of the 1997 year in switerland:
>
>the largest retailer in switzerland (Migros http://www.migros.ch)
>launched the M-Cumulus card. Each time you buy something by Migros,
>you can present this card and get a 1% rebate (wow...) and you may
>also get special rebate "tailored to your needs". But, to get this
>card, you have to sign an agreement that allows Migros to record
>what you buys. On the 20th november 1997, 1.6mio of citizen were
>in the database (about 1/4th of the swiss population). When requesting
>this card, you also provide the name and date of birth of each
>in the household (you're not forced to do so, but 97% of the
>M-Cumulus owners filled this information).
>	(source: partially "Le Nouveau Quotidien", 20th nov 1997)

It is a bit worrying, but on the other hand, I don't consider my shopping
list a
very personal thing, after all, hardly anyone (except Monty Python) gets
killed by
a banana.

>The federal government was supposed to issue a warning. If a warning
>was issued, I may have been sleeping at that time...

Well, I guess everybody was...

>Swiss Federal Data Protection Commissioner: http://www.edsb.ch/
>mostly empty... not a word about these 2 stories. you see how the
>swiss people are informed...

Now this guy (Odilo Guntern) seems to have no clue about anything...

Wanna get more paranoid? Some companies log all Internet traffic of their
employees
that passes through their proxy (which you have to use for anything to
work) for
some weeks (Weren't you the one chatting on #really-naughty-bits for more
than 1 
hour on Monday??).
And of course, phonenumbers you call in your company are logged, too.

See you,
Remo
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Fate favors the prepared mind. (from "Under Siege 3")
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Remo Pini                         T: +41  1 350 28 88
Pini Computer Trading             N: +41 79 216 15 51
http://www.rpini.com/                 E: rp@rpini.com
key: http://www.rpini.com/crypto/remopini.asc        
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