From: Ian Sparkes <isparkes@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:15:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980106170810.006f0ff8@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:28 06.01.98 -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote:
><daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU> (Wei Dai) writes:
>
>> I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately.
>> Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic
>> properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the
>> domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've
>> already lost!
>> 
>> Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need
>> crypto?
>
>I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict
>a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military. With maybe
>$20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make
>life very difficult for any luckless squad that happens your way. Multiply
>that by 100 million armed citizens and you see that armed civilian
>resistance *can* defeat an occupying army.
>

I'm not sure I am convinced by this argument.

The "enemy within" seems to be the main focus of the discussions in the CP
list. When the 'luckless squad that happens your way' is manned by your
countrymen at the command of their (and your) government, what then? Will
you still attempt to defeat the 'occupying army'?

As far as I can see, the result would be a *very* bloody civil war. The
outcome may indeed be less obvious than in a 'conventional' (i.e. unarmed
populace) civil war, but the cost much higher.

Bear in mind that this is from the standpoint of a 'sissy' European. I
admit I am poorly equipped to comment on the American Zeitgeist. However,
my experience of civil war victims (extensive contact with refugees from
the E-bloc) suggests to me that we should be concentrating on social
revolution before we tool up for a military one. There is more to be won,
with a potentially much lower cost.

By all means buy the hardware, that is after all your right. Just spare the
hero talk. *Everyone* thinks they'll be one of the survivors in a war, just
as 95% of the population believe they have an above average IQ.

My understanding of the word 'revolution' in this context means realigning
the opinions of the governments and peoples around the globe to allow
freedoms such as those supported by Cypherpunks to be freely available. An
example of this is to work against the misinformation spread by 'them'
which leads the average Joe (dumb or not) to think that 'Encrypted Data =
Child Porn/Drug Barons planning something big/More child porn'.