From: Paul Bradley <paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 03:39:17 +0800
To: Anonymous <nobody@replay.com>
Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns
In-Reply-To: <199801081855.TAA05464@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980109162329.724A-100000@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Tim May doesn't know anything about Onion Routers, Crowds, or any of
> the other new privacy technologies like Adam Back's prototype Eternity
> service. 

Judging Tim May in this way seems rather unfair as I have no reason to 
believe you know any of this to be true, although your anonymity prevents 
me from knowing either way.

> In truth, he has lost all interest in cryptography and now spends
> his time talking about guns and making racist comments.

True, Tim spends little time posting about crypto now, but maybe he feels 
he has said what he wants to, and moved on, maybe he`ll post about crypto 
again in the future, maybe not. If you don`t like his writing killfile 
him, or use the delete key, if you don`t like the content on the list 
now, write something yourself, start a thread you find interesting, do 
something to change the situation rather than bemoaning the state of the 
list.

> He wonders why the cypherpunks list no longer attracts quality
> cryptographic ideas.  He need look no farther than the nearest mirror.

People who have something to say about crypto will post here, look at the 
number of good cryptographers on the list and tell me where else you will 
find such an accumulation of talented thinkers and writers. Cypherpunks 
was never intended to be a pure crypto list anyway (as I see it), more of 
an applied crypto list discussing applications of technology as a defence 
of personal freedom, related issues will inevitably be discussed and that 
includes guns and "anti-discrimination" laws. If you don`t like the list, 
change it or leave, sci.crypt and sci.crypt.research are excellent groups 
on a more pure cryptography topic than cpunx, apart from the massive 
number of "where do I get PGP for my PC" questions on sci.crypt 
(sci.crypt.research is moderated and much lower traffic).

> His violent rants and his off-topic, offensive posts have done more than
> anything to drive good people off the list.

"good people" as you see them presumably have the level of technical 
competence required to set up procmail, and put those who they see as 
"ranting" in their killfile. 

> The single best thing that could happen to the cypherpunks list (and the
> cypherpunks movement, for that matter) would be for Tim May to leave the
> list and disassociate himself from the cypherpunks. 

Oh worthy anonymous one, please enlighten us with your next pronouncement 
on the best thing we can do for the movement.

> He would be much more comfortable joining the KKK and the local 
> militia.  

How do you know Tim isn`t already a member of his local militia?
Why do you feel Tims predisposition towards active methods of preserving 
his freedom rule out his participation in this group?


> After him, Paul Bradley, William Geiger and Dimitri Vulis can follow.

Never let it be said that I post in my own defence against a silly 
flamebait message such as this, but I cannot see the writers problem with 
ignoring me if he doesn`t like what I post.

> This will leave fine thinkers with good hearts like Adam Back, Bill
> Stewart, Wei Dai and others, people who still believe that cryptography
> can make a strong contribution to our freedom.

I still believe cryptography can make a contribution to freedom, but I am 
gradually persuaded more and more to the belief that other means of 
defence may become necessary as a last resort, and I believe in being 
prepared for all possible outcomes.

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"