From: Information Security <guy@panix.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:24:30 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunk Policeman?
Message-ID: <199802241624.LAA22146@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Guy wrote:
>  Has 'cypherpunks@cyberpass.net' replaced 'cypherpunks@toad.com'?

Apparently it hasn't, because I never got a copy of my own post back.

So, here it is again...


   >   From aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Feb 23 16:26:58 1998
   >   
   >   Guy <guy@panix.com> claims that he managed to persuade PSInet (who
   >   Dimitri used as his ISP) to pull his plug.

Leaving him with full access to a minimum of three other accounts.

   Don't cry for him, Ukrainia...

   >   I'd just like to feed back to Guy that I think this is uncool, and
   >   that it is counter productive.

Hey, maybe _you_ would get a warm and fuzzy feeling when
Dimitry posts a death threat (including to this list) and
signs your name: not me.

!   I will gladly pay the $50,000 (canadian) reward to whomever KILLS
!   Chris Lewis and his family, who reside in a suburb of Ottawa.
!   I'm putting the notice of the CAUCE reward on http://www.panix.com/~guy
!   ---guy

   >   Guy, you may not have hit it off with Dimitri, but this is no reason
   >   to go attempting to censor people.  Ever heard of a kill file?  

Censor?

Yeah, and the "Freedom Fighters" who are against any spam cancellation
do so because they are fighting "censorship".

I don't think so.

   >   As an aside I don't think getting into a dirty tricks contest with
   >   Dimitri is a good idea, I am pretty sure Dimitri could win by a large
   >   margin if he cared to.

No dirty tricks involved: I complained to PSINet using traffic analysis.

If he had simply called me a cocksucker, I would not have complained.

   >   Guy <guy@panix.com> writes:
   >   > PSINet terminated Vulis for stalking, which I documented he did to a
   >   > minimum of four people.
   >   
   >   What is your working definition of stalking as applied to a mailing
   >   list, USENET or email?  What are you talking about?

In addition to death threats, forging death threats: he tries to get
people fired from their jobs.

But Dimitry can't figure out where I work (MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA), reducing
him to saying I was fired from where I _used to_ work.

<snicker>

This stalking: attempting to deprive someone of their right to work.


----


   >   From tcmay@got.net Mon Feb 23 17:14:50 1998
   >   
   >   At 1:24 PM -0800 2/23/98, Adam Back wrote:
   >   >Guy <guy@panix.com> claims that he managed to persuade PSInet (who
   >   >Dimitri used as his ISP) to pull his plug.
   >   >
   >   >I'd just like to feed back to Guy that I think this is uncool, and
   >   >that it is counter productive.
   >   >
   >   >Guy, you may not have hit it off with Dimitri, but this is no reason
   >   >to go attempting to censor people.  Ever heard of a kill file?
   >   
   >   I agree with Adam. As one who has borne a frontal assault of Vulis' insults
   >   and raves, and (in all probability his) ASCII artwork, I dealt with it by
   >   filtering as much of it as I could into a trash file.

Oh, great, an independently wealthy person is telling me it's not a problem
that a known stalker has posted angrily to this list asking if anyone knows
where I work.

   >   In my 10 years of actively being on the Net (though my first ARPANet
   >   account was in 1973), I've complained a handful of times to postmasters,
   >   and only _once_ because of content. The rest were about spam, mail bombs,
   >   etc.
   >   
   >   The one content-based complaint I made was about Lawrence Detweiler's
   >   attachment of my name to pro-Hitler, anti-Jewish rants he sent to
   >   newsgroups like alt.culture.jewish and alt.culture.german.

Then please explain why you agree with Adam, since I decided to complain
to PSINet about Vulis stalking me and signing my name to death threats?

   >   If Vulis can have his account yanked for calling Guy a pedophile, what
   >   about all those who have called Arthur C. Clarke a pedophile?
   >   
   >   Has there been any determination (and what does that mean anyway?) as to
   >   whether either Guy or Clarke are pedophiles?

Ahhh, that's the wrong question. Look past your nose.

Calling me a pedophile is one part of Vulis' patented style of stalking
attacks. Add to that him saying I was fired from consulting work for
being a pedophile, asking if anyone knows where I now work, etc: stalking.

It wasn't merely him being insulting, but part of a larger
Simon-Barr-Sinister pattern of behavior.

Certain behavior is not permissible regardless of the venue.

Not a direct analogy, but: you would censor (CENSOR! CENSOR!) people
who work for you who wanted to speak "Ebonics" on the job.

Gosh, how dare you deprive them of their right to free speech!.


----


   >   From aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Feb 23 21:35:47 1998
   >   
   >   John Young <jya@pipeline.com> writes:
   >   > Since Guy's death notice Dimitri's telephone has not answered
   >   > several tries. The number of his sig: 1-718-261-2013, in Brooklyn
   >   > across floater bay from here.
   >   > 
   >   > Was he whacked as well as unplugged? Or is he hiding from the
   >   > peds, plotting anthrax terror posing as Jim Kallstrom?
   >   
   >   OK, Guy, could you fill us in on what exactly you did to get PSInet to
   >   pull Dimitri's plug?

Exactly what I said: I submitted traffic analysis reports ("the big picture")
regarding Vulis' stalking activity via PSINet to their legal people.

I have previously posted to this list a dejanews URL for an early
traffic analysis report on him that I posted to Usenet.

It was like that, only more complete and specifically oriented towards
getting him spanked.

   >   Did it involve calls to law enforcement?

No.

He used an anonymous remailer for the death threat.

His personal stalking of me didn't get far before I blew him off PSINet.

I'm sure he's learned his lesson. ;-)

He's still here, but sulking silently. He's run out of dirty tricks.

   >   Is it likely that your claims would have been relayed by PSI to law
   >   enforcement?

Oh, I _wish_ I had that kind of influence.

Of course, in the Cryptography Manifesto polemic, I have said not-nice
things about law enforcement, as part of complaining about Key Recovery
and the general Orwellian state of affairs.

Guy's CM: Louis Freeh is a Scary Man with the morals of a styrofoam cup.

On the other hand, I do believe most FBI personnel are good people
who perform an invaluable service for all of us.

Guy's CM: This posting isn't about the many good FBI and other law enforcement people.

Gee, could I do a better job of offending both "sides"? ;-)


   >   If you have taken this far enough to get Dimitri into legal trouble,
   >   and your claims are untrue, or exaggerated, I think you owe it to
   >   Dimitri to try to undo some of this stuff fast!

Hell.

Freeze.

Over.

   >   What did you tell PSInet?

I documented his stalking behavior via PSINet, documented that he
had begun stalking me via PSINet, and stated that if they didn't
terminate him and he continued stalking me, I would sue them.

And that the traffic analysis report they were holding was
what a jury would use to decide PSINet was liable for their
continued (after _years_ of people's complaints) inaction.
---guy

    With Vulis, the best defense is a good offense.