From: "Joel O'Connor" <ogrenivek@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:43:52 +0800
To: brownrk1@texaco.com
Subject: RE: airline id
Message-ID: <19981029125342.6578.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Interesting, I like that.  It makes sense.  Bill Clinton knows all
about putting things in fromt of trains, like the two kids who found
his secret cocain dumping ground in Arkansas when he was governor, so
he dumped their two bodies on a train track and the train (spotting
them, like you said Ken) tried to stop but hit them.  Further
investigation found that they had died of a massive hemorage, but
Clinton's honest people told the public that they had "fallen asleep
on the railroad tracks and were accidently hit by a train." 
Convenient, if I've ever noticed.
    I guess the thing with trains is that they are fun and a nice
ride, but modern societies push to get there quickly escalates about
as fast as inflation, so the demand to fly is becmoming more popular
as time goes on.  I think in the future, the only need for trains will
be for shipping us cpunks off to the concentration camps, seeing as
most are only accessible by train or helicopter anyway.  We'll see
though.   




---"Brown, R Ken" <brownrk1@texaco.com> wrote:
>
> Various anonymes and Joel O'Connor discussed sabotaging trains -
> presumably in order to force 
> 
> >>you flew to.  Even with trains, all's it will take is one bomb and 
> >> youbetter believe security will be pumped up as high as it is 
> >> with airlines. 
> 
> > Naaah, you pull rail-spikes to get trains, no big ba-da-boom
required.
> > And it does happen.
> > 
> > 
> Actually you just put something on the  line. It happens all the time.
> If a fast train hits it there can be big problems.  
> 
> Even a small obstacle (like a plastic rubbish bag with rubbish in it)
> will cause a train to stop if it is seen. (Trains can't swerve). That
> just causes inconvenience, unless of course you put something
conductive
> down that shorts out the power - that has a (small) chance of
causing a
> serious accident and a (big) chance of disrupting all rail traffic for
> miles around for hours. A sort of occasionally fatal denial of service
> attack.  It appeals to 14 year olds. You too can make 75,000 people
late
> for work, cause 30,000 pounds worth of damage and possibly kill a
train
> driver. 
> 
> In fact it is so easy to do (all you need to find is a bridge over the
> line & a time when no-one is looking, and heave over  a stolen
> supermarket trolley or an old fridge door from a dump, or any other
bit
> of metal rubbish) it is almost surprising that it doesn't happen more
> often. IIRC, the IRA never tried to disrupt train traffic into or
out of
> London by putting things on the lines, always by bomb scares in
> stations. There was one real bomb on a train,  went off just after it
> arrived at Victoria, killed a couple of people. It was a train I
> regularly used, although I usually travelled later in the day. It got
> much harder to put bombs on trains, or in stations, after that. The
main
> fixes were removing the litter bins from around stations  (it took the
> IRA to teach the messy English to clean up after themselves) and
getting
> people to report unclaimed packages and then evacuating trains when
they
> were found. If you leave yout bag on the train  they stop the train.
> This makes people angry. So there is social pressure to not leave
> packages lying around on, or near,  trains.  So if you want to plant a
> bomb on a crowded train and not get blown up yourself you have a
> problem. On trains, unlike planes, you keep your luggage with you.
> 
> Also people *like* trains. They are cute. Even in America you have
> hordes of trainspotters and steam enthusiasts and model-builders and
all
> the rest. It always amazes me that bookshops have more shelves of
> hobbyist books about trains than about cars, but only about 15% of the
> population regularly travel by train and about 60% by car. (In
England -
> I guess in the USA that's more like 5% and 85% - and before you say
that
> that last figure is too low remember there are an awful lot more
> disabled, vey old, very sick or imprisoned people than most of us
notice
> - I guess that car users in the USA include just about everyone
capable
> of using a car, with the possible exception of the inhabitants of some
> parts of very big cities)
> 
> Back to the point - the reason you need id to travel on a plane is
> because people are scared of planes. Especially they are scared of
them
> falling out of the sky, depressurising or catching fire.  When
something
> goes wrong with a plane everybody can die very quickly.  When an
> accident happens to a train it usually just comes to a halt. They
don't
> have heaps of fuel on them (except if you are on an line that is still
> back in the diesel age - and even then the fuel is usually all in one
> location, separated from the passengers) You mostly don't die whan a
> train crashes, or even blows up.
> 
> Repressive laws get popular support from people who are scared. People
> are scared of plane crashes so they put up with  -no, they mostly
> applaud or even demand -  treatment  they wouldn't stand for anywhere
> else. People aren't scared of trains.  
> 
> Nobody's scared of cryptography - well, nobody wh hasn't received the
> NSA corporate injection - but some peope are scared of
> drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the
jackboots.
> To oppose it we need to reduce fear. 
> 
> 
> Ken Brown
> 
> (who prefers bicycles to trains but had to use the train to get to
work
> today because  of a broken spoke he is incapable of fixing. He only
does
> software)
> 
> > ----------
> > From: 	Anonymous[SMTP:nobody@replay.com]
> > Sent: 	28 October 1998 17:36
> > To: 	cypherpunks@toad.com
> > Subject: 	airline id
> > 
> > At 12:43 PM 10/27/98 -0800, Joel O'Connor wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
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> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

==
Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
                  Ogre

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