From: Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 04:52:59 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto)
In-Reply-To: <199810131927.OAA07077@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199810132014.VAA12469@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jim Choate writes about his visit from IRS agents in relation to Toto.

Jim Choate writes:
> I was visited by two nicely mannerd IRS agents this morning. We
> talked for about an hour or so about Cypherpunks, CJ, Austin,
> majordomo, etc. In the process I was served with a subpoena from the
> Western District of Washington [...]
> 
> I explained how majordomo works, how to manipulate majordomo to get
> lists of subscribers (I used the SSZ subscriber list as an example),
> and described the time in July (I believe) when CJ/Toto/aka visited
> the local meeting. We also discussed the potential for altering
> email traffic through a remailer.

Perhaps they lack proof that the message in question was sent to the
list, very little is signed, and Toto surrounded himself with
forgeries.

Not that it makes much difference that I can see -- the issue is
surely whether CJ wrote the post, and whether the post and the AP
mockup constitutes a credible threat.  (That they apparently think
Toto's AP mockup was credible shows a lack of understanding).

> I've made it clear I have no problems answering their questions but
> have no desire to go to Seattle in Nov. or any other time. They are
> looking into whether a deposition given here would be sufficient for
> their needs. Until then I'm getting ready for a 2-3 day trip to
> Seattle in Nov.....

I don't see why they're bothering you, I wonder if the other majordomo
operators have received, or shortly will receive similar visits.

Perhaps we could send archive URLs to Jeff Gordon.

> I'm currently trying to decide whether to scan and post the subpoena
> on the SSZ webpage.

Sure please do.

> It's interesting that they requested archives of the list. 

I would have thought Jeff Gordon, the IRS agent investigating Toto,
would be subscribed to the list, at least via an alias.

Also, there are several operational cypherpunks list archives
remaining.

> Please don't call or send private email requesting further
> details. They didn't ask me to keep any of our discussion
> confidential but until I better understand what is going on I'm
> taking the conservative course (I had a big fight with myself about
> whether to even post this).

Well thanks for making it.  I say make it all public, FWIW.

Adam