From: Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:24:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811100205.UAA14919@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:27:14 -0500
> From: Petro <petro@playboy.com>
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>  (fwd)

> 	No, it's that facists & socialists like yourself think we should be
> happy letting you decide what our social responsibilities are.

Actualy, no. I'm perfectly happy to let you run around paying no taxes on
your income. The part you're not going to like is that I'm also not going to
let you reap one iota of benefit from those systems that are built and
developed by those of us who do pay taxes without a cost. And the cost will
be more than what the necessary taxes would have been. Hell, a free-market
capitalist shouldn't begrudge a tidy profit anyone under any situation.

> 	I am perfectly willing to pay for a police force. A police force
> that arrests ALLEGED rapists, treats them like human beings until found
> guilty and then deals with them as the law indicates. I am NOT willing to
> pay for a police force that spends most of it's time (well, aside from
> eating doughnuts, drinking coffee and collecting bribes) chasing after
> teenagers with illegal chemicals. I am not willing to pay for a police
> force that extorts money from these same teenagers. I am not willing to pay
> money for a police force that thinks it needs to arrest people for
> "loitering", "Mob Action", when it's defined as more than 4 people standing
> together in a public place, and ESPECIALLY when EVERY TIME THEY ARREST
> SOMEONE, IT'S THROWN OUT OF COURT.

Neither am I, unfortunately paying taxes or not won't resolve those sorts of
issues. What is required is public over-watch groups (as was recently
implimented in Austin, pisses the cops off big time) and a change in the way
we run our prisons. As to the way people are currently treated prior to
being found guilty at a trial is an abuse of power on the part of those
parties involved and clearly cruel and unusual punishment for an innocent
man.

Of course the *REAL* problem isn't the police. It's the people who make the
laws that the police are sworn to uphold and the judges with a social agenda
(that is not relevant to their job however much they may squeel like pigs).
That process *is* most certainly an ideal place to inject consideration and
respect for civil liberties and the purvue of government institutions.

> 	I am willing to pay for the streets I use. I am not willing to pay
> the same fees to ride my bicycle (my current primary form of
> transportation) as you do to drive your 2 ton SUV.

And you probably don't now (Does a Bronco II weigh 2 tons?). In actuality
you don't pay the gas taxes, the vehicle registration, license fees,
inspection, requisite insurance, etc. for your bicycle. I bet you don't even
have to license your bike to ride it on the city streets.
 
> 	I am willing to pay for fire protection. I am not willing to pay
> for "universal health care", "welfare", and other such nonsense.

The Constitution happens to mention that the federal government is detailed
with taking care of the general welfare. If you don't like that sort of stuff
then get a Constitutional amendment passed.

> 	In other words Jim, Fuck You. I, and I'd bet most people here,
> including Mr. May, are perfectly willing, and hell even eager to pay their
> share, to assume their social responcibility, they just get very, very
> angry at having to pay OTHER peoples social responcibility, and get very,

Unfortunately, that is what social responsibility is - giving with in
personal gain. That ultimately is what drives the bee up your butt.

> very angry at having to pay for other shit (Senate Luncheons and Swimming
> Pools, the Militaries greatly inflated budget, all the waste that is todays
> federal government).

Agreed. Throwing the Constitution away won't fix that and going to a
free-market monopolistic no-social-responsibility-at-all system such as
anarcho-capitalism is sure won't do it.

> 	Yes, but a state can kill those who don't wish to be governed. Can
> and does routinely.

Oh what hyperbole. You make it sound like the Nazi's have invaded. They
haven't. Yes, there are misguided people out there. Yes, there are just
plain old corrupt people out there. That won't change irrespective of the
political system (or lack of one). They don't just go out and pick people
off the street and shoot them you're over-reacting and succumbing to a
paranoid delusion of persecution.

Unless you kill somebody or move a few tons of coke your individual chances
of being killed by the state is less than being struck by lightening.

> 	But did you bother to read them this time?

Actualy I read it twice before I even decide if I'm going to reply.


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