From: Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:10:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)
Message-ID: <199811110150.TAA21515@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:57:04 -0500
> From: Michael Hohensee <mah248@nyu.edu>
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)

> > Without some government the Bad Guys will be the only ones with anything.
> > It is only with the threat of losing their power that leaders do good. If
> > they had no power which could be lost or taken they will always do what's
> > best for them in the short term, which is usually to shit on the peons.
> > Dictators (like Pinochet and Gates) do their dirty deeds because they feel
> > no need to placate the masses.
> 
> If they wield no real power, and proceed to do whatever is best for them
> in the short term, they will be screwing themselves over in the long
> term (or short term, if doing what they want results in someone shooting
> them in self defense).

If they have that kind of power they will have the shooter shot, look at the
history of leaders and assassinations. The reality is that the vast majority
of them fail. There is the other aspect that if one is willing to
assassinate (murder in plain english) simply because somebody else murdered
then we are in fact trading one tyrant for another.

> And precisely what dirty deeds has Mr. Gates ever done?

Every un-fair market practice he could get away with (why is it that
anarcho-whatever types always leave that 'fair competition' out of their
discussion?). Why do you believe the Halloween documents are so
enlightening? Because they demonstrate without a shadow of doubt that Billy
wanted to exist as the sole market force, not a force limited by fair
competition. The concept of fair-competition is anti-thematic to the
world-domination memes that are currently making the rounds.

>  Excluding those
> actions in which the judicious use of state regulation was involved.

Hell, if we just look at the business practices within the context of
a market with fair competition it's clear he's so far out in left field he's
playing by himself.

> Yah, and then somebody else points a gun at Mr. would-be warlord and
> goes Bang, Bang, he's dead  (it's unsafe having warlords about --sorta
> like scorpions).  That is, if Mr. would-be manages to shoot me without
> being shot himself.

Well I'd say if you're running around shooting people for any reason other
than immediate self defence you deserve what you get.

> > Try to lift yourself out of the bullshit of your theory and give us at
> > least one REAL example (current or historic) of a large scale, long lasting
> > anarcho-capitalist society. Hippie communes are too small, and make sure
> > it's capitalistic. If you can't think of one in the next year or so then
> > come back and tell us.
> 
> It hasn't happened yet.  But then, neither had the USA, before 1776. 
> The above is not a reasonable argument.

It is at least a start, there was ample evidence historicaly that democracy
(you ever hear of the Dutch?) was tried to varying degrees. It seems to work
out better than any other system we've developed.

If you want to see a discussion of democracy prior to the US check out:

On the improvement of the understanding; The Ethics; Correspondence
Benedict de Spinoza
ISBN 0-486-20250-x
$7.95 (Dover)

They were written in the mid to late 1600's (shortly before the birth of
the founding fathers).
   
> You can, of course, as me how it *could* happen.  And unfortunately,
> you're partially correct, it couldn't happen under current conditions. 
> The amount of personal firepower that is easily accessible by everyone
> is not sufficient to back up the soverignity of each individual.

So, in your mind the only way to defend oneself is to have a bigger dick..um
I mean gun than the other guy....

I've a couple of quotes for you to ponder:

Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% persperation.

                             T.E. Edison

If Mr. Edison had though smarter he wouldn't have had to perspire as much.

                                                   N. Tesla


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