From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:16:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: [ISN] Feds Want Banks to Spy on All Customers...Even You!(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <365C3CDB.6F34@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <v03130316b2822643931c@[209.66.100.75]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:22 AM -0800 11/25/98, Michael Motyka wrote:

>BTW - the FDIC site state that there is no statutory requirement for a
>'Know Your Customer' system. You could also say that they are not
>interested in little guys, that they need this stuff to do their job,
>but if the laws are written so that anyone can be targeted without a
>warrant then there is a *big* problem. Especially worrisome is automated
>pattern analysis without a warrant - a violation of the 4th.

This is not at all clear.

If Alice has information about Bob, and the cops seek information from
Alice about Bob, and Alice provides it, Bob cannot generally (as I
understand constitutional law) claim any violation of his Fourth Amendment
protections against unlawful search and seizure.

Now maybe Alice can, if they are her records. (As this transfers the
"papers" she is "secure in" to her.) But not if she gives them up
voluntarily or is subject to other regulations.

Specifically, if the Alice Bank, subject to banking regs and suchlike,
gives up information on Bob the Customer, no Fourth A. issues are likely
involved.

(There may  be contractual issues, if Alice has promised Bob that she won't
give up Bob's secrets, and so on.)

I'm not approving of the Feds examining the records of banks, only noting
that the Fourth is not implicated here. From what I know of the law.

(Legal beagles would probably mutter about a penumbra of the Fourth, an
expectation of privacy, etc.)

--Tim May

"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.