From: Petro <petro@playboy.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:10:30 +0800
To: Jim Choate <cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811110138.TAA21400@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <v0401170bb26f7963db6c@[206.189.103.230]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:38 PM -0500 11/10/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:33:04 -0500
>> From: Petro <petro@playboy.com>
>> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
>
>> 	Theft, violence and extortion are already legitimate, not only does
>> the government use them all the time, but corporations and indivuduals do
>> as well.
>
>True, at least under a democratic system we can prevent some of the more
>gross abuses by government and can address the inter-personal issues with
>something besides a nylon jacketed .357. Your anarcho-whatever doesn't even
>provide that.

	So you really think I'd shoot you over this discussion?

	Some "interpersonal disputes" diserve to be settled with a .357,
some with discussion.

>> 	There is no (or little) justice under the current system. When was
>> the last time a cop went to jail for a murder that he/she committed while
>> on duty. Is OJ behind bars?
>Several cops in Houston were fired (they got no-billed by the Grand Jury)
>just last week because of a similar issue. There are two cops here in Austin

	I know. They didn't even get _TRIED_ just waved a miss.

>who went to jail because of a murder (they held a kid down on a water bed
>and he suffocated) charge. The current public overwatch group was the result
>of a police call that got out of hand last year and the police had two
>choices - either give the people what they asked for or end loose the civil

	So this oversight group is less than a year old? Wait, see what
it's like in ten years.

>rights case. The two cops who beat Rodney King ended up doing time.

	Which was a total injustice.

>Nobody proved to the jury beyond a shadow of a doubt he was guilty. It is
>far better to let a dozen guilty men go free than to imprison a single
>innocent one. Our legal system may have its problem but I guarantee that a
>lot more guilty people get off scott free than innocent people end up in
>jail.

	The cops often play judge and jury, and if you complain you have
parking tickets and tow bills the rest of the time you live in that city.

>There is more than a little justice under the current system (OJ being the
>perfect example - like it or not).

	If that is justice, then the system NEEDS dismantling.

>> 	We have courts of Law, Justice is ashamed to show her face.

>Somehow I doubt that. If justice is ashamed of anything its that citizens of
>this country don't participate more and express their views with more
>conviction.

	My wife shows up for every single jury summons she gets (I think
she gets them for both of us) she takes a book, wanders down (or up) to the
court house, and waits to be dismissed, since she is an educated white
middle class person, the lawyers have no use for her.

	It's the system.

>
>> 	We recognize that these interactions exist, but guess what, for any
>> sort  of anarchy to exist, it has to happen globally. We are as concerned
>> about the people on the other side of the planet as we are about the people
>> in the next city over. Just not much.
>
>Which, considering that anarchic systems permit murder, theft, rape,
>extortion, etc. without reprisal or limits, means that the vast majority of

	Every system permits murder, theft, rape and extortion, it just
limits it to certain people.

>
>> 	No, we assume the opposite, that nothing works for large numbers of
>> people, and everyone should be free to find their own level.
>
>If nothing works for large numbers of people then why should this? Anarchy
>isn't freedom, it's opportunity to make huge profits with no responsiblity
>and at the expence of others (who are treated as a market commodity and not
>human beings).

	Because some of use prefer to live free.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather nave, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com