From: Jim Choate <ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:21:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811030242.UAA02938@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 20:41:24 -0500
> From: John Young <jya@pipeline.com>
> Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd)

> Jim Choate asked:
> 
> >If they had threatened just a plain old citizen with this 
> >email would they also be facing this life imprisonment?
> 
> Apparently the charges would have been the same if made 
> against any 
> 
>   "person within the United States, and the results of such 
>   use affect interstate or foreign commerce or, in the case 
>   of a threat, attempt, or conspiracy, would have affected 
>   interstate or foreign commerce." (see below)

Ok, exactly how would their threat effect inter-state commerce?

> The use of E-mail was incidental to the charges of both 
> conspiracy and threatening to use weapons of mass destruction:
> 
>   18:2332(a)(2) and (c)(2)(C). Conspiracy to use a weapon 
>   of mass destruction against person(s) w/in the U.S. 
>   the results of which affected interstate & foreign 
>   commerce.  Offense dates:  3/24/98 - 6/30/98.  Penalty:  
>   Any term of years or for life, $250,000, 5 yrs SRT.  (1)

Conspiracy requires active steps, not simply talking about it. As I
understand it the conspiracy and weapons of mass destructions charges were
given a not-guilty by the jury. No proof was presented that they had ever
even bought a bic lighter to test with. Hell, even going to the bookstore
and buying a book or the library and checking one out is protected under the
Constitution. It takes more than talk to generate a conspiracy.

>   18:2332a(a)(2) and (c)(2)(C) and 2.  Threatening to use a
>   weapon of mass destruction. Offense date:  6/26/98
>   Penalty:  any term of years or Proceedings include all events.
>   for life, $250,000, 5 yrs SRT as to ea ct. (2 - 8)

If we're going to go by this then the US government is already guilty re
their plan to destroy various contraband plants via genetic weapons. If you
think that won't effect inter-state & international commerce you better
think again.

And they've gone a lot farther than just talking about it in email. Congress
has spent millions on it over the last few years.

> The eight counts are for the one count of conspiracy and
> threats against seven federal agencies ("employees and
> families"):
> 
>   The President
>   ATF
>   FBI
>   DEA
>   IRS
>   Secret Service
>   Custom Service

Ok, so my question still stands what if these had been actual people instead
of government agencies? The charges are *NOT* for threatening individuals
who happen to be government agents, oh no, they're for threatening
government *agencies* a whole different ball game ('The President' is an
office not a person).

> CHAPTER 113B - TERRORISM
> 
> Sec. 2332a. Use of weapons of mass destruction
> 
>  (a) Offense Against a National of the United States or Within the
> United States. - A person who, without lawful authority, uses,
> threatens, or attempts or conspires to use, a weapon of mass
> destruction, including any biological agent, toxin, or vector (as
> those terms are defined in section 178) -

Where is 'lawful authority' defined?

>    (2) against any person within the United States, and the
>   results of such use affect interstate or foreign commerce or, in
>   the case of a threat, attempt, or conspiracy, would have affected
>   interstate or foreign commerce;

I covered this one already.

>  (c) Definitions. - For purposes of this section -
> 
>    (2) the term ''weapon of mass destruction'' means -
> 
>       (A) any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this
>      title;
> 
>       (B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or
>      serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or
>      impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors;
> 
>       (C) any weapon involving a disease organism; or

So if I go out and sneeze on somebody I've committed an attack using a
weapon of mass destruction?

>       (D) any weapon that is designed to release radiation or
>      radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life.

Where is the definition of 'mass' in there? Hell, just about anything
qualifies under this definition. It doesn't even require the death of 1
single individual (it doesn't even require it to be lethal).

Oh, *all* radiation is harmful to human life.

> CHAPTER 10 - BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS
> Sec. 178. Definitions
> 
>   As used in this chapter -
> 
>     (1) the term ''biological agent'' means any micro-organism,
>   virus, infectious substance, or biological product that may be
>   engineered as a result of biotechnology, or any naturally
>   occurring or bioengineered component of any such microorganism,
>   virus, infectious substance, or biological product, capable of
>   causing -
> 
>       (A) death, disease, or other biological malfunction in a
>     human, an animal, a plant, or another living organism;

Well this certainly covers each and every effect of a pathogen on a
biological system (I particularly like the way they've covered their butts
for ET.... 'another living organism'. Not to mention that cleaning your
kitchen counter qualifies under this statute.

>       (B) deterioration of food, water, equipment, supplies, or
>     material of any kind; or
> 
>       (C) deleterious alteration of the environment;

Well at least they've set themselves up for their anti-drug pathogen
program.

>     (2) the term ''toxin'' means the toxic material of plants,

Can you say circular defintion, I thought you could. This sentence say
nothing.

>   animals, microorganisms, viruses, fungi, or infectious
>   substances, or a recombinant molecule, whatever its origin or
>   method of production, including -
> 
>       (A) any poisonous substance or biological product that may be
>     engineered as a result of biotechnology produced by a living
>     organism; or
> 
>       (B) any poisonous isomer or biological product, homolog, or
>     derivative of such a substance;

This of course happens to cover plain old water (re 'whatever its origin or
method of preduction').

>     (3) the term ''delivery system'' means -
> 
>       (A) any apparatus, equipment, device, or means of delivery
>     specifically designed to deliver or disseminate a biological
>     agent, toxin, or vector; or
> 
>       (B) any vector;
> 
>     (4) the term ''vector'' means a living organism, or molecule,
>   including a recombinant molecule, or biological product that may
>   be engineered as a result of biotechnology, capable of carrying a
>   biological agent or toxin to a host; and

Next time I get food-poisoning at a restaraunt it's comforting to know that
the federal government will be right there to prosecute under this
particular statute...

Geesh.


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       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

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