From: Robert Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:42:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: [E-CARM] Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies
Message-ID: <v04020a5db26aa1c14e8d@[139.167.130.246]>
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--- begin forwarded text


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Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:52:59 -0200 (EDT)
From: Ed Gerck <egerck@laser.cps.softex.br>
To: Robert Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com>
cc: E-CARM <e-carm@c3po.kc-inc.net>, DIGSIG@LISTSERV.TEMPLE.EDU
Subject: Re: [E-CARM] Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies
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On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

>Don't blame me, blame the remailer? <Bwahahahahah!>

Bob:

If the e-mail below was forwarded through you, it means that you
thought it is useful to these lists and that you also found some
nexus in the argument line used by the, huh... author. However,
neither you nor the huh... author seem to hold a steady line of
argument, as of course, you are indeed to be blamed without recourse
for this piece of tasteless non-sense being further reproduced on the
Net.

My intent with my original posting (available at
http://www.mcg.org.br/antinomy.txt, as proof) was NOT to criticize
the Clinton administration on an initiative which is in accord with
current practices worldwide -- but to show that there is a better and
privacy-protecting solution when identification is modelled using
coherence functions. Further, my intent was to show that biometrics
is perishable and not self-secure, which reasons alone would seem to
rule it out in the case.

THUS, MY SOLE REASON FOR THIS REJOINDER IS TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.

However, the Net is an amplifier -- it just provides raw power. The
question is how it is used. You and I have duly performed our duties
as estimulated emission sources, albeit with different filter
functions.

Cheers,

Ed Gerck.

>
>Cheers,
>Bob Hettinga
>
>--- begin forwarded text
>
>
>Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:26:24 +0100
>From: Anonymous <nobody@replay.com>
>Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
>	It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
>	Please report problems or inappropriate use to the
>	remailer administrator at <abuse@replay.com>.
>Subject: Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies
>To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>Sender: owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>Precedence: first-class
>Reply-To: Anonymous <nobody@replay.com>
>X-Loop: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>
>Aaww horseplops[1]! In fact, great, festering, mid-path, sole-sticking
>horseplops!  This argument is vacuous. As every small child knows,
>authentication != identification and, in most cases,  only authentication
>is required and, the absence of identification implies privacy.
>
>Am I a UK citizen, a good credit risk, a club member in good
>standing, etc.  An appropriate mechanism, a smartcard, can easily
>authenticate both itself (challenge-response) and the bearer via a biometric
>and/or PIN without revealing the identity of the holder.
>
>However, who holds out hope that such a sensible
>thing would ever be adopted by the powers-that-be.
>
>Nematode
>
>[1] The plop is a useful measure of human cogitation. As every small child
>knows, much good thinking is done whilst enthroned on the commode, since
>the evacuation of feces from the anus promotes the introduction of fresh
>material into the brain through the ears.  After years of experimentation
>and careful measurement, we (the ISO labs) have observed a strong  correlation
>between ideas and fecal bombardment of the receptive commodal pool and audible
>emissions therefrom. For example, it required only 0.3 plops to decide to vote
>for Clinton while a similar decision in favor of John Major required almost
>5 plops.
>For the purposes of comparison, 10^6 homosapiens plop = 1 horseplop. While the
>relationship between megaplops, flops and MIPS is not yet clear, our
>ISO plop standard should be emitted soon.
>
>-----BEGIN PLOP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: PLOP for Personal Privacy
>Charset: nocommode
>
>NSACIAMOUSEaw6mkJhRWnHTzAQFMlgP/ZMM+14qUzy+w6AGSlOtAyrE2BBDSV3Hm
>Tlc0Ct7wyXV2CPEMzieCm4ZS0rzigkgTZTMCmEqYexEJkdSAU60WMHm3cr28UJIG
>ekx7N7aWKQ34u05dRrE+IVR329y0ia/2F8B7edZ7CqoydOJAnQxNIB1qohlCGlGT
>RYgOGVSpO04=
>=MF1K
>-----END PLOP SIGNATURE-----
>
>--- end forwarded text
>
>
>-----------------
>Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@philodox.com>
>Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/>
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
>===========================================================================
>Help with Majordomo commands plus list archives and information is
>available through the E-CARM web page at http://www.kc-inc.net/e-carm/.
>Sponsored by The Knowledge Connection.
>===========================================================================
>

______________________________________________________________________
Dr.rer.nat. E. Gerck                     egerck@novaware.cps.softex.br
http://novaware.cps.softex.br

===========================================================================
Help with Majordomo commands plus list archives and information is
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@philodox.com>
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'