From: Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 05:53:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: How to make non-neutral charge batteries... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811212131.PAA16124@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:41:11 -0500
> From: Bill Stewart <bill.stewart@pobox.com>
> Subject: Re: How to make non-neutral charge batteries...

> At 09:13 PM 11/9/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
> >The two vertical plates above are not a capacitor. They simply represent
> >some mechanism to hold charge, Leyden Jars for example.
> 
> A Leyden Jar _IS_ a capacitor, which _IS_ a mechanism to hold charge.

No shit Bill.....

> Capacitors don't have to come from a factory in plastic or ceramic packaging;
> they're simply two (or more) conductive surfaces separated by insulation;
> that insulation can be air (or probably even vacuum), though there are
> much better insulators around, which commercial capacitors normally use.

No shit twice Bill, I make mine for my Tesla Coil out of copper sheeting and
BIG (3ft x 6ft) plates of glass that were scrapped from a constuction site.

Know what?

If you take the Layden Jar, put a charge on the inside plate and then remove
the OUTSIDE plate which is required to get it there, IT STILL HOLDS A
CHARGE.

Don't believe it? Try this:

Take one plane of glass and two copper sheets.

Place a glass between alternating copper layers thusly:

 Cu >    -----------------------
       ---------------------------    < glass
         ----------------------- < Cu

Then place a charge on it by using a standard battery.

Then remove the metal plates leaving just the glass.

Where do YOU believe the charge is stored, on the metal plates?

If so....BUUUUUZZZZZZZ....wrong answer.

If it were so we'd get a discharge if we connect the two metal sheets
together after removing from the glass plate, you won't.

If you put two metal plates on the glass and connect them again you'll
get a spark.

The charge RESTS ON THE SURFACE OF THE INSULATOR, the metal plates are there
so that we can get an even charge distribution QUICKLY across the insulating
dielectric. You could do it using just a couple of wires touching opposite
sides of the glass but it will take a whopping long time to get the charge
on the dielectric plate because it's an insulator and it has very few surface
electrons (one of the characteristics of an insulator) to help distribute it.

I'll let you in on another little secret.

If you take two Leyden Jars and charge the inside plates of the two jars
alternately and then connect them with a wire you'll get a spark clearly
demonstrating charge flow, even if the outside plates aren't connected.


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