From: Bill Frantz <frantz@netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:49:51 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" <cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: I must admit. . .
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At 3:17 AM -0700 12/17/98, Brown, R Ken wrote:
>I'm sorry but this is nonsense. Ghandi may have been a great man and an
>inspiration to us all but he *lost*. His first big political involvment was
>trying to stop the British from allowing the Boers to take away political
>rights from the "coloured" and Asian  population of Cape Colony. The Brits
>caved into the white South Africans and we all know what happened next.
>Then he tried to get them (well us I suppose, since I'm British) to "quit
>India" in the 1920s & 30s - failed again, we got out 2 decades later, after
>WW2,  when a British government was elected that was anti-colonialist. You
>wouldn't have been able to persuade the 1945-1951 government to stay *in*
>India. In fact they were so eager to get out they probably caused more
>problems by the speed of the withdrawal.  Ghandi wanted a secular federation
>of all India - but instead there was partition, the secession of an
>inherently unviable Muslim state that was bound to end up with either civil
>war or fundamentalism (and in the end got both, at least for some of the
>time), and at least hundreds of thousands, and possibly many millions of
>deaths that could have been avoided.  And then of course he himself was
>killed.  And now India has the BJP.  Ghandi was perhaps *right* but he
>certainly didn't "win the race".

If you take the long view, Ghandi has won 2 out of 3.  South Africa is a
lot better than in Ghandi's day.  Britain is out of India.  He has so far
lost on the separation of India and Pakistan, with no unification is sight.
It is clear that Ghandi has inspired the people more directly involved with
the final victory in the first two cases.  I think Ghandi took the long
view.  YMMV.


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