From: nobody@soda.berkeley.edu
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 23:04:13 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Software infrastructure
Message-ID: <9306040600.AA20309@soda.berkeley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


From: Hal Finney, <74076.1041@compuserve.com>
 
Mike Diehl's system sounds pretty good to me.  You can create messages, 
encrypt them, upload and send them, as well as downloading, decrypting, and 
reading messages, all with a nice menu-based interface.  That's what we 
want, right?
 
It sounds like the system would be easily adaptable to other types of hosts, 
too.  BBS operators could customize the scripts for their particular systems 
and offer the package.  We could create versions for users of other mail 
packages than elm on Unix systems, as well as for some of the commercial 
systems.  You could cover a lot of people this way.
 
> Well, if you have followed my this far, you either crazy or interested. ;^)  
> It puzzles me why we are contemplating writing our own comm package when so 
> many good ones are out there that can be made to serve our purposes.  I'm 
> open to comments.....  Fire away!
 
The only real problem I see is the use of Telix.  How much does this program 
cost?  We can't give away a disk with Telix on it.
 
What about Kermit?  It's free and it has a scripting language, but it 
doesn't sound nearly as advanced as Telix's.  Would it be good enough?  Or 
are their other free programs which we could use?
 
If we could adapt Kermit or some other free program to do what Mike is 
describing, we could give away floppies with secure and easy-to-use 
encrypted email handling capabilities, as well as making them available on 
the net.  People could just get the version they need for their particular 
mail access.method.  The package would include the communication program, 
the scripts, and the encryption software.  The user interface would be as 
Mike described, all menu driven and easy to use.
 
I think this would be a good way to go if we could get past the hurdle of 
finding a free comm program that would be adequate.

Note added in proof :)

Eric mentioned concerns about reliability.  Scripts can in principle be made
flexible enough to handle many sorts of errors.  You just need a lot of
states and a lot of result checking.  This technique of automatically
attaching to a host system and downloading data is widely used by computer
novices.  I just saw an ad today for a product which lets you create your
own "newspaper front page" graphically, then will log on to Compuserve and
fill in the news, sports, and business figures you have specified, and do
so at regular intervals, automatically, running in the background.  I often
use a package called Tapcis which automatically logs onto compuserve, getting
my mail and sending new mail, reading various topics of interest that I
have selected.  I used to use a Mac program called Navigator which did the
same.

Granted, none of these are scripts, they are all custom programs, but the
kinds of checking they do should be doable in scripts as well.  (I wasn't
sure whether Eric's point was that high level scripting languages are
excessively clumsy, or the more general point that automated mail access was
the wrong way to go.  I am addressing the latter here.)

Hal