From: "Perry E. Metzger" <pmetzger@lehman.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 93 11:19:47 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: more deranged lunatic ravings -- just delete 'em!
In-Reply-To: <m0oeSXT-00021tC@khijol>
Message-ID: <9309191818.AA08784@snark.lehman.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ed Carp says:
> > As I've noted in private mail to you, *WE* are not conducting this
> > investigation. *WE* are not involved. *WE* haven't been summoned to
> > provide evidence in court.
> 
> First off, 'we' ARE involved.

Oh? Have you been hired as an attorney for either side?

> This case is IMPORTANT, and can have far-
> reaching consequences for us.

Yes, thats fine and well, but this is very different from saying that
"*WE* have to conduct an investigation and get to the bottom of this"
as if "we" are even a group or in possession of resources to do any
such thing. Indeed, what Mr. Detweiler has largely been proposing is
yammering.

Cypherpunks CODE. Quit yammering and start coding. I'm coding. Its
fine to keep up to date. Its fine to send big checks to EFF. Its fine
to do some legwork if you think it can help. However, what is the
point in saying inane things like "we have to find out what the grand
jury is investigating" when its a bloody secret and we don't get to
find out until they unseal their indictments?

> > I have a great deal of trouble getting excited over something that
> > will take years to resolve, yes. This is not like watching the D-Day
> > invasion, or even like watching trench warfare in WWI. This is very
> > much like watching people playing chess while immersed in ice cold
> > molasses. Hard to get thrilled by the pace, Mr. Detweiler.
> 
> The attorneys and other experts looking at this case apparantly don't share
> your lack of enthuasism.  Even in the very early stages, the groundwork that
> is laid in a case like this is of TREMENDOUS importance to the outcome of
> the case, regardless of how long it takes to be resolved.  Frankly, I'm
> surprised at your lackadaisical attitude

Not lackadaisical. Simply not in a state of hyperactive disarray. WE
are not doing the groundwork. The attorneys are. WE are not about to
be charged with a crime. WE have no reason to go into a frenzy of
activity -- I see nothing that WE can do. It isn't up to us.

You sound like someone upset that the supreme court is about to rule
about abortion and screaming "WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING". Well what,
precisely, do you propose to do? Take over the legal work when you
aren't a lawyer? Complain? Scratch your crotch and look important?
This isn't in our hands. If you think you have information of use to
the lawyers, give it to them and be done with it -- there is nothing
else you can do.

> Cases involving billions of dollars have been decided by trivial details.

Oh? How many cases involving billion dollar settlements can you name?
Care to give us a list?

Perry